Kpl Trading System

Mini Cooper vaihtoautot Haluatko yrityksesi Nettakontrollert nettopp Nettverksutviklingen har en tendens til å være vanskelig å få tak i. Kyttjt voivat hakea palveluja tarkoilla hakukritereill, jolloin ilmoituksesi saa kohdennettua nkyvyytt. Palveluissa saat kuvauksen palveluistasi, yrityksesi logon, yhteystiedot og linkin omille kotisivuille. Nettauton palvelut på maksullinen hakemisto, ota yhteys myyntiimme tarkemmista hintatiedoista. Laskutus tapahtuu etukteen. Jeg er uskikk, usko asiakkaitamme. Automaalit på Suomen suurin automaalien ja - tarvikke verkkokauppa. Olemme olleet lsn NettiX: n markkinapaikoissa niin jatkuvalla nkyvyydell kuin kampanjaratkaisuilla. Tulosten ja mys palvelun perusteella voimme suositella NettiX: n markkinapaikkoja Saat mitattavaa vastinetta rahallesi. - Osmo Korkiakoski, toimitusjohtaja Jt yhteydenottopyynt Kerro meille yhteystietosi niin olemme yhteydess. our verdier vårt folk Ledende b2b utgiver, som spesialiserer seg på interaktive, interaktive profesjonelle samfunn. Med en rekke tjenester, inkludert nettsider, e-postpublikasjoner, industripriser og arrangementer, leverer Sift Media originale, merkevareinnhold til over en halv million fagfolk innen regnskap, IT, HR og opplæring, markedsføring og småbedrifter. Ved å produsere kvalitetsinnhold og engasjere våre profesjonelle publikum på flere berøringspunkter, tilbyr vi b2b-merker unike markedsføringsmuligheter som gir ekte avkastning på investeringen. Våre verdier Vi tror på å skape innhold, aktivere samtaler og konvertere forretningsmuligheter, både for våre forretningsholdere og for våre annonseringskunder. Ved å fokusere på innhold og fremme samfunnsengasjement satser vi på å skape pålitelige og unike miljøer for forretningsmerker og forretningsfolk for å optimalisere forhold. Våre folk Vårt folk er vår største ressurs, og vi har vært heldige for å tiltrekke seg noen av de beste digitale talentene i landet. Med en praktisk ledergruppe, erfarne kampanje - og kontoansvarlige, prisbelønte redaktører og et ledende produksjons - og teknologipart, har vi en struktur og kvalitet som skiller oss fra andre utgivere. Finn ut mer og møt laget nedenfor. Tom Dunkerley Finansdirektør Steven Priscott, Sift Vår historie David Gilroy og dagens administrerende direktør Ben Heald, Sift, ble grunnlagt av Andrew Gray, og ble tilbudt bransjespesifikk informasjonstjenester som utnyttet internett ved å integrere tradisjonelle nyheter og webinnhold. Med Bens bakgrunn i regnskap ble det bestemt at dette ville være det første markedet for leting og i 1997 ble AccountingWEB. co. uk født. Formelen virket, og om 12 måneder hadde sirkulasjonslisten gått fra 10 til 4000, med inntekter generert fra annonser i ukentlige e-postbulletiner. Sift Media nå nå over 700 000 registrerte forretningsfolk hver måned og leverer over 5 millioner sidevisninger på tvers av sin portefølje med 11 titler i Storbritannia og USA. Ikke bare fortsetter vi å utvikle noen av de mest lojale og engasjerte nettbaserte næringsliv, vi tilbyr ledende løsninger for annonsører. For en mer detaljert historie besøk vår bedriftsside sikt. Hvis du ønsker å bli med i en av Storbritannias mest spennende utgivere, og du tror at du har lidenskap og ferdigheter til å bli en verdifull del av teamet, hvorfor ikke sjekke ut våre ledige stillinger. London Transport Wheel Trims På 1950-tallet ble hele London-flåten ( 7000 busser) sportfulle bakhjulsklubber som rydde opp fra siden og må ha gjort for enkel rengjøring. Plutselig var de borte 8211 hvorfor, og gjør moderne restauratører søke dem ut, for en finish og 8211 mens de er på hjul 8211 hvor forskjellige (og forferdelige) er AEC og Leylands kjører uten deres nøtter-ringer på forhjulene. Det fikk dem til å se ut som entreprenør busser. 061016 8211 17:07 Kanskje fordi de har kilometermålere på de bakre navene og de gule mutterindikatorene på forsiden 8211 og bak Med dekslene var det vanskeligere å se om hjulet / hjulene falt av. Elv og sikkerhet, du vet. 061016 8211 17:03 Jeg ser ut til å huske å lese et sted (skjønt vær så snill å korrigere meg hvis I8217m er feil) at en bakhjuls trimplate en gang kom av en LT-buss mens den var i fart og forårsaket noen alvorlig skade, noe som resulterte i at de ble fjernet fra hele flåte. 061016 8211 17:03 Victor, jeg kan ikke snakke for LT, men jeg mistenker at det alle kunne være en del av det samme, kunne ikke bry seg mindre syndrom som utførte BET og BTH-selskaper da NCB kom. Fra 1967 til 1975 jobbet jeg hos NGTs Percy Main Depot Tynemouth Amp Wakefields, som de fleste depoter i gruppen, satte de seg svært høye standarder, kjøretøyene ble omhyggelig vedlikeholdt, og etter deres ukentlige kontroller ble de grundig rengjort fra topp til tå, dette var i Tillegg til nattlig utflukt gjennom vasken og natten over feie ut. Stolthet i flåten var fortsatt noe å bli oppmuntret til, og dette gjenspeiles i kjøretøyet, små skader ble reparert raskt, og hjulbekledning ble alltid erstattet etter vedlikeholdskontroll. Da kom den nye kosten av NBC, som mange andre depoter, ble biler byttet mellom flåter, mens noen gikk fra den ene enden av landet til den andre, for litt misquote Oscar Wilde, regnskapsmennene angitt prisen på alt og verdien av ingenting Hjørnene ble kuttet for å prøve å spare penger, dvs lyse trimmer og merker ble malt over, eller rett og slett ikke erstattet dersom karosseriet var påkrevd, begynte hjulprøvene å forsvinne, og alt i alt flåten begynte å se ramshackle og forsømt. NBC ble et akronym for No Body Cares. Dessverre syntes PTEs å være litt bedre, i rettferdighet ser det ut til å gjøre en innsats, og deres kjøretøy er bedre presentert enn de av et annet selskap med skotsk opprinnelse, men jeg er redd for at bortsett fra en håndfull mindre bedrifter, er de herlige dagene lenge borte 071016 8211 06:20 Jeg liker akroniet Ronnie har postet, NBC No Body Cares. En litt annerledes 8211 unprintable i 8216family8217 omstendigheter 8211 var i et handelsmagasin som krysset på skrivebordet mitt for noen år siden. Heldigvis realisert hierarkiet i tide, og bestemte seg for ikke å bruke NBG tross alt 071016 8211 07:49 Manchester var en av en rekke bedrifter som i en periode angitte bakhjuls trimmer. Mye til irritasjonen til hovedkontoret, fjernet enkelte depoter dem så snart som mulig med den vanlige unnskyldningen for 8216 i tjenesten8217. Andre depoter holdt dem frem til midten av 1960-tallet. De virkelige årsakene til fjerning var bremseoveroppheting, tid i å fjerne og erstatte dem når hjulene måtte byttes og, viktigst, behovet for å regelmessig sjekke hjulmutter for tetthet som senere ble en obligatorisk regelmessig kontroll og, som jeg forstår det, var på den tiden at London hjulet trims forsvant i kort rekkefølge. 071016 8211 17:03 Jeg hadde hørt den samme historien som John Stringer. De syntes alle å forsvinne fra busser nesten over natten. Så en edict fra ovenpå virker rimelig. Dette var selvfølgelig lenge før dagene på hjulmøtangenter eller hubometre, slik at 8216fallet off8217-høringen høres utrolige troverdige. Jeg pleide å reise daglig på Country Bus RTs fra Godstone og East Grinstead, og de hadde alle de vanlige grønne platene, bortsett fra en bestemt buss (ikke spør meg hvilken). Dette hadde den hevde sirkelen, midtveis mellom midten og omkretsen plukket ut i polert aluminium. Sammenlignet med alle de vanlige grøntene, så denne veldig smart ut. Jeg tviler på at få passasjerer noensinne har merket forskjellen, men jeg trodde at de kunne ha blitt levert ny i denne stilen, men ble vanligvis malt uten lindring. Når det gjelder hvordan preserverne finner dem nå, er det et mysterium. Med mindre noen garasjer lager en mengde til bruk som søppelkasser 081016 8211 05:49 Det virker underlig for meg at etter over tjue år og millioner av mil i drift, bør et hjulkledning komme på en slik måte at man skader noen og utløser en masse fjerning. Trimmerne ble festet med en uformet brakett boltet i hver ende til navet. Et fjærklips i midten av braketten passerte gjennom et spor i midten av trimmen og sikret trimmen under trykk. Trimmerne hadde en tett passform rundt hjulfeltet, så hvis våren mislyktes, ville disken i utgangspunktet holde seg på plass ved hjelp av sentrifugalkraft. En hastighetsendring eller en ujevn veioverflate vil til slutt skifte trimmen, men med LT8217s kjøretøy motorer styrt av lave hastigheter og selv i landsområder, sakte trafikk, lurer jeg bare på hvilke hastigheter som kan oppnås for å få trimmen fly av for å forårsake skade. Mer sannsynlig var dette en vedlikeholdsdebit utstedt av en ledelsesendring. Mens det var lang tid før hjulmåtteindikatorer osv. Forekomster av løse hjul på store kjøretøy ikke var uvanlige 8211 så jeg at tre lastebiler mistet hjul på M1 i en to måneder i 1967 8211 og et strengere inspeksjonsregime enn tidligere ble satt inn i plasseres av mange operatører av store biler. 081016 8211 05:50 I8217ve bare kikket gjennom Ken Blacker8217s bok 8216RT8217 (Capital Transport, 1979) og han sier at 8216 i november 1971 gikk ordren ut til garasjer for å fjerne platene. og deres fastholdningsbeslag fra bakhjulene til alle kjøretøyer8230.årsaken var økonom8230 .. Noen garasjer fulgte umiddelbart og håndterte hele flåten deres i løpet av få dager andre var mer sløv. De to siste garasjene, Wood Green og Palmwrs Green, fjernet gradvis platene fra RT8217 og RM8217s i begynnelsen av 19728217. Så det virker som om jeg kanskje har fått ledningene mine med mitt tidligere forslag. 091016 8211 06:44 Jeg bekjenner at jeg ikke har tenkt på denne funksjonen før, men jeg kan ikke huske noensinne å merke en buss fra RF, RT eller RM-familien i tjeneste uten de smarte bakhjulene. Så vidt jeg vet, ble de aldri montert til senere av pegdesignene som ble operert i London. En rask titt gjennom mine egne lysbilder og negativer avslører ingen RFRTRM-familieeksempel uten trimmer, men på internett har jeg sett et bilde av en RT som mangler disse armaturene mens de fortsatt er i LT-tjeneste. Den postulerte 1971-dagen for dekretet om fjerning av trims passer med det faktum at London Transport kom fra 1. januar 1970 under ny ledelse da sentralbusser og underjordiske operasjoner ble overført til Greater London Council. I 10. juni 1969 House of Lords debatt om forslaget om transport London Bill, ble det avvist at London Transport Management er svært svakt, dette fra en politiker fra Tory, hvis karriere hovedsakelig var i landbruket. Dermed var BroadwayChiswick-dynastiet som hadde regjert regjeringen siden generalens dager, kommet til en brå slutt. Alle nye brystene ser ut til å bli renkjøtt, selv om noen av elementene dermed kasseres, er til nytte. Det var ingen tvil om at hjulbekjempelse ble sett på som overflødig irrelevans. Landbussen og bussavdelingen, som ble overlevert til National Bus Company, hadde ingen forpliktelse til å følge samme sti. Alle bildene mine fra ex LT LCBS-flåten viser trimene på plass, og jeg jobbet på Reigate HQ i løpet av den tiden. Faktisk var dette den perioden da Stokes (mis) ledet British Leyland fant seg ute av stand til å levere nye biler og reservedeler til bussbransjen landsomfattende. Reservedeler til ex LT-designene ble spesielt knappe, og slike gjenstander som ble tilgjengelige ble umiddelbart snappet opp av GLC-kontrollerte London Transport. LCBS led svært alvorlig. NBC utarbeidet slike kjøretøy som det kunne mønstre inn i LCBS, og busser ble innleid inn fra Southend og Maidstone for å hjelpe til med å plugge hullene. Bestemt for å redusere størrelsen på problemet solgte LCBS så mange RTRMCRMLRCL busser som mulig til den GLC-kontrollerte London Transport Executive. Jeg er ganske sikker på at den resterende LCBS-flåten av ex LT-typer beholdt hjulbekjempelsen til slutten. Det er et lite punkt i Phils omfattende kommentar som jeg ville stille spørsmål. Motorer i London Transport busser ble vurdert, ikke styrt ned. Likevel, landsbussen og treneren dept. flåten ble utstyrt med høyere gearedifferanser når 40 mph ble lovlig grense. Jeg kan forsikre ham om at en Country RT på en landsbygdsområde som den fra Chelsham-garasjen til Westerham på 403 (senere 483) sikkert ikke hengte seg når forholdene så krevde, og det var mange andre lignende ruteeksempler. 091016 8211 08:35 Takk Roger for å plukke meg opp på poenget om at motorene styres. Et sted i fordypningene i min aldrende hjerne synes jeg å huske å lese at LT8217s kjøretøy hadde regjeringer, men det kan vel være den som skrev det som brukte uttrykket feil i stedet for å avlede. Når det gjelder fjerning av trimene, besøkte jeg jevnlig London frem til begynnelsen av 1970 for jobb og så aldri en RT, RF, RLH i tjeneste uten trimmer. Mitt neste besøk var sent i 1971, og jeg ble overrasket av antall kjøretøyer sans trims. 091016 8211 09:39 Absolutt, Roger: Hillman Imps med de vakre, men problemløse aluminiumsmotorene hadde spesiell anti-fryse. De trengte ikke kraftstyring. Du kunne snurre lett fra lås til lås. 091016 8211 10:58 Jeg bekjenner at I8217ve aldri likte hjulkjørt av noe slag, spesielt de forferdelige wobbling cheapo-kromte tingene som ble brukt på 1960-tallet, lett (og til og med skamfullt), noe tungt trenere. Bortsett fra de grundig praktiske punktene til nøtter tilgang, bremsekjøling og så videre allerede nevnt, liker jeg å se navene, som ofte avslører chassiset. Selv når innkjøpte aksler som Kirkstall finnes på mer enn ett bussen, har de en ærlig verdighet som ikke trenger skjul. 091016 8211 15:11 Ditt innlegg på LCBS v GLC-kontrollerte Central er veldig interessant og opplysende, Roger Thx. Når det gjelder NBC-innflytelsen, utvidet dette også til Northern General8217s RMF8217s, hvis bak - og fronthjulsklær forsvant med adventen til NBC. 111016 8211 06:32 Til forsvar for NBC, kan jeg huske svært få instruksjoner av typen som er nevnt ovenfor. De fleste avgjørelsene ble gjort lokalt, sannsynligvis under stress av stadig redusert inntekt og behovet for å gjøre økonomier i å opprettholde stadig mer komplisert maskineri i stadig vanskeligere trafikkforhold. Dette kan være på selskaps-, område - eller garasjeplan. Feste av hjulbekjempelse til Bristol-busser var en instruksjon fra Tilling Group (jeg tror det var før NBC) til BCV, men det var mer sannsynlig innfallet av den lokale sjefingeniør eller til og med garasjeingeniører om å opprettholde dem. Jeg likte utseendet på dem, men ville aldri ha påført prosessen med fjerning og erstatning for hver hjulmutterkontroll på hardt presset vedlikeholdspersonell. Den eneste NBC dikterer at jeg kan huske var: NBC-bedriftens livery (Noen selskaper dekket kremet med hvitt på en gang, andre holdt de to separate leveriene intakt til full repainting 8211 Hvor lenge klarte Ambleside-depotet å holde den siste treneren i Ribble livery vekk fra National White) På Leyland National ble det sirkulære Leyland-skiltet avvist (hvorfor skulle NBC annonsere Leyland 8211 Samme resonnement som eldre kjøretøy som har produsentnavnet erstattet av firmaplater. De fleste flåter fjernet dem ved neste passende anledning, kanskje på omsmussing. Som en annen side, da jeg var rundt 11, dro jeg til Blackpool og så åpenbare Leylands som hadde en Ribble radiatorplate, så da jeg dro hjem til Bristol, antok jeg at alle Bristols var Leylands også. Det hvite midjebåndet var de - spesifisert fordi Leyland ble lading for mye for å legge det til den ene fargespray-malte kjøretøyet. Noen flåter slettet den på resten av flåten (spesielt de som var sprøytemaleri), jeg hadde det lagt til til alle statsborgere ved UCOC (fordi vi fortsatt var håndmaleri) før de slo veien og hvor mye bedre de så ut 111016 8211 15:39 Som jeg sa i åpnings salvo Geoff, visste NBC-regnskapsførerne prisen på alt og verdien av ingenting. Dine kommentarer bekrefter det. 121016 8211 06:33 Jeg tror at Geoff8217s grunnleggende beskjed var at i de tidlige dagene av NBC, var det en stor skjønn å få lov til individuelle selskaper. Når politburo-mentaliteten og den døde hånden til Freddie Wood-epoken ankom, ble absolutt, kjedelig, kvelende samsvar, dagens orden (etter dag, etter dag). Greater Manchester Buses Jeg har nylig sett på noen bilder av gamle Greater Manchester busser fra 1986 til 1988, og jeg kom over et par bilder som viste busser med prefikset FK før bussnummeret. Disse var vanligvis depotet bussen tilhørte, nemlig OM Oldham, PS Princess Road. Kan noen kaste litt lys på FK-prefikset og hvor det var etc etc. Her er en lenke til et av bildene madannie. smugmugBuses 270916 8211 08:56 FK var koden for Frederick Road. Dette var tidligere HQ i Salford City Transport. 270916 8211 08:57 FK var depotkoden for Frederick Rd, Salford, den tidligere HQ og jobber for Salford City Transport. Vet noen om en buss eller trener oppkalt etter Jack Harrison, VC, MC i Hull. Jack ble tildelt et posthumt Victoria kors i 1917, og jeg tror at en buss eller trener ble oppkalt etter ham. Takk for eventuelle ledere du kan gi. 210916 8211 05:53 Det var en Kingston-upon-Hull-trener, nummer 40 (B40UAG) som ble kalt quot John Harrison VCquot. Det var en Dennis Dorchester med Plaxton Paramount 3200 (C50Ft) kropp. Det var nytt i juli eller august 1984 med Kingstonian flåtenavn. Jeg fotograferte den på 18091984 på International Garden Festival i Liverpool, men det hadde ingen synlig navn. En Ian Allan flåtebok rett til januar 1985 gir det som å bære sitt navn. Hvis du gir Google QuoteB40UAGquot, bør det første resultatet gi deg et bilde av den sene Roy Marshall tatt i Hull i 1986, og viser at navnet blir båret mellom vindusviskere. Hvor langt ned Holderness Road i Hull kjørte trolleybussene Er det en gjenværende grønn gantrypol motsatt Kingston Vets på samme side som Apollo puben i nærheten av rundkjøringen 030916 8211 16:15 Hei Brenda. Trolleybusser strekte seg ikke lenger enn Ings Road på Holderness Road-ruten etter at de har erstattet trikkene på denne ruten i 1940. Den grønne trekkpolen du ser på Diadem Grove-rundkjøringen, ser faktisk ut som en tidligere trolleybusstang . Jeg mistenker at dette var en av mange som skulle re-plantes på forskjellige steder for gatelys, etter at trolleybussene ble trukket tilbake i 1964. Det ber om hvorfor det fortsatt er der, tilsynelatende ikke noe formål. 050916 8211 06:50 Holderness Road trolleybussene avsluttet like kort fra Ings Road. Hull8217s trekkpoler var av seks forskjellige typer, så det ville være nyttig å ha et fotografi for å prøve å identifisere stangen. Mange poler ble beholdt til belysningsformål, men de ble overført til City Engineer8217s Department, så det er mulig at noen ble gjenbrukt. Malcolm J Wells 050916 8211 14:52 Malcolm, her er en lenke til gatevisningen som viser den aktuelle polen. Din identifikasjon av hvilken type den er, ville være interessant. Klikk her for å se 060916 8211 05:48 Det ser ikke ut som en trekkpinne til meg, men i stedet en avløpsventil er den riflet toppen en indikator på funksjonen, i stedet for å ha en finial som var vanlig med trekkpoler. Jeg må si at jeg har sett et avløpsventil hvor som helst for en stund. 060916 8211 05:49 Det bildet ser mer ut som et avløpsventilør enn en trekkpinne. 060916 8211 08:35 Mange takk, David og Phil, for å identifisere det som avløpsventil. Jeg visste aldri at slike ting eksisterte på en offentlig vei. Det ser ut til å ha datert fra trolleybus-epoken, så Brenda hadde rett til å stille spørsmålet. Mysteriet løst, og noe nytt lært. 090916 8211 16:22 Har nettopp sett fotografiet, og jeg er sikker på at det ikke er en trekkpinne. Malcolm J Wells 090916 8211 16:54 Det andre punktet som virker mot det å være en trolleybus-trekkpole er at ventilrøret ser ut til å være vertikalt, rett og sant. Trolleybus-poler var, jeg ble alltid ledet til å tro på å være reist med en utvendig mager, slik at polene antok en vertikal 8216true8217 når de overliggende leddene ble installert og spenret. Dette ble sikkert båret ut av polene som forblev langs Sutton Road i Maidstone, som ble holdt som lampestandarder lenge etter at trolleybussene var ferdig. Uten ledningene slapp de alle til en bestemt holdning. Igjen ble jeg fortalt av en gammel timer at denne pre-spenne design var mye mer uttalt for trolleybusstandarder enn sporvognstolper, på grunn av den ekstra vekten kobberledninger. Plaxton kroppsstil på Bedford J2-chassis De første legene som ble bygget av Plaxton på Bedford J2-chassiset fra 1961, var 8216Consort8217-stilen 7ft 6in bred med viklingen rundt 2-delers vindrute og 3 stykker bak. I 1965 ble dette endret til den bredere 8216Embassy8217 stilen 8ft bred med et stykke skjermene samme forsterker bak. Men det var 2 trenere bygget i 1969 i eldre stil for Bradford Ambulance Service, disse var LAK 118G og 119G. Mitt spørsmål er hvorfor gjorde Plaxton gå tilbake til den tidligere stilen for disse to trenerne jeg legger til bilder av LAK 118G og også ABC 330K av den senere stilen til sammenligning 020916 8211 16:20 John, jeg kan ikke forestille meg at et firma som Plaxton ville ha bygget to av de eldre stilkroppene for det rene moroa med å gjøre det. Mitt gjetning ville være at klienten angav mønsteret. Kanskje, for Bradford8217s Ambulance Service, ønsket de kjøretøy med samme 8216footprint8217 som ambulanse. 030916 8211 16:12 Pete, jeg er sikker på at du er riktig, trolig krever Bradford Ambulance Service den smalere 7ft 6in for å gjøre dem mer tilgjengelige for smale bygater. J28217-ene ville ha blitt brukt som velferdsbusser til å transportere den eldre forsterkeren deaktivert til polikliniske avtaler på lokale sykehusforeninger. Bradford Ambulance hadde også to flere i batchet LAK 120121G, så fire totalt, som jeg antar at det var verdt å gjenopplive den tidligere designen. Kun LAK 118G amp LAK 119G overlever, 118 som et cateringbil, og 119 som et motorhjem. Burlingham Sun Saloon Jeg er en buscoach anorak og lurer på om det finnes noen fulle Burlingham Sun Saloon trenere. Min grunn er at jeg spurte Oxford Diecast om de kunne produsere en modell i 1:76 som de allerede gjør i sine mindre skala modeller, men ble fortalt at ingen eksisterer i kvotelivskutt. Takk for din hjelp. 220816 8211 14:03 Hvorfor skal ingen eksempler på 1: 1 skyldes Wiki, det er bare 4 til 5 år siden de laget 1: 148, sikkert har de fortsatt tegninger og andre referansemateriell de brukte da. 220816 8211 14:06 Etter at jeg skrev min siste kommentar, la jeg merke til at Paragon Kits annonserer en 1:76 Sun Saloon-kropp. paragonkits 220816 8211 14:07 Peter Bourne og jeg synes å få forskjellige meldinger om Oxford Diecast-produkter. De fortalte meg for et par år siden at de undersøker svært nøye når de planlegger en ny modell, inkludert omfattende visninger av et kjøretøy i den foreslåtte leveren. Jeg hadde foreslått en modell av MTD 235 i enten Pennine eller Leyland Demonstrator livery. Hvordan kan de da fortelle Peter at de kan produsere en modell i 176 når de produserer den i 1148 for britisk N-skala. Kanskje de burde få et ord med folket på Bachmann, som modellerer i en skala og forstørrer eller krymper til den andre Nei, Peter, I8217m ikke klar over noen av den stilen av kroppen fortsatt 8216alive8217 i reelle termer. 220816 8211 17:04 For noen år siden hadde noen i Bus Amp Coach Preservation8217s rubrikkannonser en Guy Arab III til salgs som hadde blitt utstyrt med en solsalongkropp fra et annet kjøretøy (donor ikke spesifisert i annonsen). Jeg kan finne annonsen uten å gå gjennom 100-tallet av tilbakekopier, så flere detaljer kan være en stund mens jeg kommer til å huske at kjøretøyet befant seg på fastlands-Europa på det tidspunktet det ble annonsert, og at forespørselsprisen var godt over odds. 230816 8211 06:45 Hvorfor skal ingen eksempler på 1: 1 skyldes Wiki, det er bare 4 til 5 år siden de laget 1: 148, sikkert har de fortsatt tegninger og andre referansemateriell de brukte da. 230816 8211 06:45 Kanskje I8217m er tykk. Jeg trodde jeg rider på en Burlingham Sun Saloon forrige uke 8211 Steve Morris8217s ex Bournemouth PS2. (En av tre som jeg trodde var alt i bevaring.) 030916 8211 16:13 I8217ve har du nettopp sett David Oldfield8217s kommentar av 23. august. Solsalongen som modellert i 1: 148, som er ønsket i 1:76, vises som et Paragon-sett i den lenken som John Lomas har gitt. Det og 8216Bournemouth8217 er ikke det samme 030916 8211 16:14 For David Oldfield8217s fordel, har Burlingham-bodene PS2s av Bornemouth en eksponert radiator og er i hovedsak en versjon av halvkapslingsbussen med full breddekabine. Solsalongen var en stil med skjult radiator og lavmonterte styliserte forlygter, hovedsakelig levert til Walter Alexander Amp Sons på Leyland PS1. Her er et bilde av en: flickrphotos 160160 Sammenlign og kontrast med Bournemouth design. I8217m skriver i håp om at du kan hjelpe med et spørsmål om luksusbusser fra 19308217, spesielt Gilford. Har disse trenerne opprinnelig art deco-speil beregnet for bruk av passasjerer. Hvis du har noen informasjon eller bilder angående disse speilene og interiøret generelt at du kan dele I8217d, være veldig takknemlige. 020416 8211 06:23 Gilford og alle de andre byggerne av busschassis ga en selvbærende kjørebar ramme som oftest var utstyrt med en trenerkropp av et eget selskap. Innredningen på 1930-tallet var etter eget skjønn av kunden som spesifiserte kroppen. Innvendige speil var ofte montert, og disse var produktene til leverandører til bussbyggerne. Disse samme firmaene ville gi lignende gjenstander for moderne luksusbillegemer. Kan noen fortelle meg hvor det er eller gi meg en kort historie med Banarbys Coachbuilders. 130816 8211 09:53 quotThe ABC av British Bus Bodiesquot av James Taylor sier at den ble grunnlagt i 1870 som en blacksmithwheelwright. Det ble B Barnaby amp Sons i 1926 og fra 1937 Barnaby8217s Bus Bodies (Hull) Ltd, med lokaler i Neptune og Ropery Street. Selskapet ble solgt i 1960 og endelig avsluttet i 1974, sistnevnte bygningen hører. De fleste kunder hilste fra Yorkshire, Tidlige busslegemer inkluderte charabancs, og i 19308217-tallet var det å bygge enkeltdækkede kropper på chassis som Leyland Cheetahs og Tigers. I slutten av 19408217-tallet bygde det kropper på Dennis LancetsTigers og Bedford OB8217s. Det re-bodied noen chassis også. Det bygget også noen dobbeltdekkekropper. 130816 8211 10:34 Barnabys bygde kropper til Everingham Brothers of Pocklington, hvorav noen passerte til East Yorkshire Motor Services. Carnegiesenteret i Hull har et par fotoalbum på Barnaby8217s produkter, men jeg vet ikke om de har annen informasjon. Malcolm J Wells 140816 8211 06:09 Barnaby var en mest fascinerende bodybuilder 8211 i senere år konservativ i stil, og i de tidlige dagene opp til 1930-tallet var deres produkter uutviklet gammeldags i utseende og herlig for det. På alle tider var konstruksjonen imidlertid lydig og med gode materialer. På Ledgard8217s hadde vi to quotLight lionsquot og en Cheetah, alle kjøpt sammen med GFTate av Leeds når han dessverre døde i 1943. 140816 8211 11:01 Fascinerende, Chris Y. Har du bilder av noen av de tre 140816 8211 16 : 41 150816 8211 06:04 Booth amp Fisher, Halfway, hadde tre Bedford OBs bodied av Barnaby i 1948. De var registrert LRB 749501 og jeg antar at dette var den samme Barnaby. 150816 8211 06:04 You8217ve har gjort oss stolte, Roger, å finne det omfattende antall bilder. Hvor trist den første bussen, TD3, ser på sine siste dager som en entreprenør 8217-buss, med ovenpå frontpanelet bløt ut med ombordstigning. Hvis David Aston kommer tilbake for å besøke posten hans, bør han være fornøyd med hva vi senere kommer med tre år etter hans henvendelse 150816 8211 06:05 Barnaby konstruerte også mange varebiler og ambulanseprodusenter. 8216Needlers8217 en gang berømt sjokoladesøt selskap av Hull som en. 150816 8211 06:06 Interessant kommentar er kvalitet fordi min forståelse av kvaliteten på deres tidlige 1950-tall var så dårlig at York Pullman ba om en erstatning for en 3 år gammel eller så kjøretøy-derav den seneste kroppsbygningen av JVY 516 150816 8211 08:49 York Pullman8217s JVY 516 var deres siste Barnaby kropps trener, men så vidt jeg vet var kroppen fortsatt utstyrt med originalen. Hvis chassiset var 3 år da det var registrert, er det mer sannsynlig at det er York Pullman8217s konservative innkjøpspolitikk (med mindre jeg har gått glipp av noe). Barnaby-kroppene på FVY 41011 klarte absolutt ikke på begynnelsen av 1960-tallet, noe som resulterte i at de fikk nye Roe-kropper. Kan noen av dere kunnskapsrike chaps komme til min hjelp Som noen av dere vil være oppmerksomme på mine innlegg på dette nettstedet, mellom 1967 og 75, var jeg en sjåfør på NGT8217s Percy Main Depot, Tynemouth og Wakefields som det var da. Hovedsakelig for å tilfredsstille min egen nysgjerrighet, har jeg forsøkt å kompilere en historie med TampW opp til dem som blir en del av NBC. Jeg har hentet mye informasjon fra North Tyneside Library Archives, om hvordan selskapet startet med trikker og senere ble en del av BET-gruppen. Den første bussen var en 1914 8216B8217 type Daimler, og kom fra Nord i 1921, 8216J 25518217 nummerert D1 senere T1 i TampW flåte, men her er hvor jeg har noen skarpe hull i det jeg kan grave opp. I8217m leter etter generell informasjon om kjøretøy med følgende flåtenummer 238 8211 4381 8211 879 8211 11117. Noen kan ha vært verktøy, mens andre førkrigsbiler ble gjenopptatt i slutten av 408217-tallet, selv om de som ble beholdt sine opprinnelige flåtenumre. Noen informasjon jeg har om kjøretøy mellom 118 amp 156 er også ufullstendig, f. eks. noen ville ha båret Wakefields navn åpenbart, flere batcher ville komme innenfor disse nummergrupperinger, og ikke alle med samme chassis eller kroppsbygger, men jeg vil sette pris på hvilken som helst assistanse noen kan gi meg. 120816 8211 11:02 Du bør prøve å få tak i en kopi av Tynemouth 8211s PSV Circle Omnibus samfunnsflåts historie. Det dekker også Tyneside og Venture. Det er omtrent 40 år gammel så nå ganske datert, men likevel, for alle som er interessert i Tynemouth og Wakefields, er det uvurderlig. Da innlegget ditt er tre år, vet jeg ikke om du fortsatt er etter denne informasjonen, men hvis du vil, kan jeg oppsummere hva den har å si. Bussbilde fra 1930-tallet Northumberland I8217m leter etter et bilde av hvilken type buss som hadde vært i drift mellom Blyth, Northumberland og Newcastle upon Tyne på 1930-tallet. Bildet er til bruk i et felleskunstprosjekt for å følge med på en dame, som nå var 98 år gammel, som var en bussleder på den tiden. Kan noen hjelpe meg med å kildre et slikt bilde, vennligst 120816 8211 06:07 Den mest åpenbare operatøren på Blyth til Newcastle-tjenesten var United Automobile Services Limited. United var en av de store territoriale selskapets operatører hvis bussnettverk streknet fra Berwick-upon-Tweed ned til ScarboroughBridlington, slik at tilgjengeligheten av noen historiske bilder av bussene er ganske mulig. United åpnet en garasje i Blyth circa 1919 og bygget opp et nettverk av tjenester samt å anskaffe mindre selskaper. United kjøpte virksomheten til Thomas Allen of Blyth i 1933, som også opererte en tjeneste fra Blyth til Newcastle. Jeg har et magasin som inneholder et fotografi av en 1929 Leyland TD1 dobbel decker operert av United som har Newcastle og Newbiggin på destinasjonsskjermen (Busser Extra 7 publisert i 19771978). Hvis det er dobbelt decker busser damen husker da denne typen er ganske muligens en type hun kanskje kjenner igjen. (Opphavsrettsbegrensninger forhindrer artikkelen å bli lastet opp på dette nettstedet, men jeg er villig til å sende en kopi til Michele hvis epostadressen min er sendt videre til henne). Denne linken fører til et fotografi av en lignende stilbuss drevet av Wilts og Dorset, et stort selskap som ligner United: busmanjohn. files. wordpress Denne linken fører til et fotografi av en United single decker-buss ny i 1934 (United LH165 (HN 9765 ), en Bristol H med Eastern Counties karosseri): sct61.org. ukualh165 I mellomtiden vil jeg se om noe dukker opp i hvilke bøker jeg har. Hastings First Tram Vet noen hvilket firma som leverte Hastings Tramways Company med sin første trikk, i april 1906, vennligst 100816 8211 10:41 John, ifølge den utmerkede LRTA-håndboken, TheTramways of the South Coastquot, Hastings8217 første trikker (1-30 ) ble bygget av ERampTCW (The Electric Railway Ampl Tramway Carriage Works Ltd) i 1905. Sporveien åpnet 31. juli 1905 og ble erstattet av trolleybusser 15. mai 1929. Systemet var interessant i det på grunn av innvendinger mot bruk av overhead wires along the Promenade, it used the Dolter surface contact power supply section from 1907. Because of safety and efficiency problems, in 1914 some trams were fitted with Tilling Stevens petrol-electric motors to cover this section until overhead wires were finally erected in 1920. 100816 8211 15:20 As an aside, I recall that Blackpool started with the conduit system (at least on the seafront) and suffered endless problems with sand and seawater clogging up and flooding 8 216down below8217 until it was abandoned 110816 8211 14:08 Going even further 8216aside8217 than Chris Hebbron8217s comment, Wolverhampton used a stud contact system which had among its features a common failure for the stud (raised by magnetism via a 8216skate8217 under the tram) to return to the lower position. Thus, it remained live. The local horses found it quite shocking 120816 8211 06:02 Indeed, Pete, the surface contact system had problems wherever it was used. Indeed, it was reported that in one city (Lincoln) young boys were paid to quottestquot the studs I suspect that tales of near fatalities have become exaggerated over the years, but one major flaw was that trams would become stranded between two non-working studs and have to be pushed by passengers. Blackpool8217s conduit system referred to by Chris was obviously not suited to seaside operation, but of course numerous cities used it successfully for many years (eg. London and Washington). Today we have a development of the stud system being built and operated as we speak, namely the French quotground-level powerquot system which collects power from a central third-rail activated by two collector shoes under each tram. This system is by no means infallible and only time will tell if the French develop it further. 120816 8211 06:03 Another early adopter of the 8216Dolter8217 stud contact system was Mexborough amp Swinton. It wasn8217t just the horses that were energised by the faulty studs, the local miners with steel sets in their boots were also frequent bright sparks. Just to prove the adage what goes around comes around have you noticed the posh new trams at the Rio Olympics. they have the Aps system which stands for something like Alimentation par sol, fed through the soil () 120816 8211 14:14 Mention of London Transport8217s conduit pickup system reminds me of this colour photo I8217ve had for some years of plough ejectioninsertion taken by my uncle just before the trams were scrapped. It was taken between Tooting Broadway and Colliers Wood in South London. The trams never stopped either way, with the conductors raisinglowering the roof pole whilst walking along and the plough being manually inserted as seen here, being put into the inverted 8216U8217 between the trucks of this E1. The plough automatically slid out by following the slot coming into the centre and joining into a common slot, ready for a plough to go out again 8211 see bottom right for slot coming in. The change to overhead power here was necessitated by a railway bridge, whereby trains would have fouled any UG feed equipment under the road. I admired these guys, who worked in the open in all extremes of weather, yet were always smartly uniformed I never passed by on foot without watching this operation for 30 mins at least and sometimes rode in the trams, too. 130816 8211 07:03 Pedants Corner: the metal protectors you put on your pit booits were actually Segsquot, Andrew: I had to say that because its such a lovely word and conjures up images of cobblers shops reeking of leather and glue with cards of these segs for sale: Blakeys segs have a website I see 170816 8211 14:06 With regard to the Rio trams (I know that there is usually a fair bit of movement from the original topic on this site, but change of mode and country is unusual 8211 not that I have any objection). I only speak a few words of Portuguese (picked up on a wonderful Railway Holiday) but 8216Alimentation par sol8217 looks like 8216Solar powered8217. No doubt one of the readers has the necessary expertise to confirm or refute this. 180816 8211 06:42 Andy, the French system APS (Alimentation par le Sol) is translated as quotfeeding via the groundquot. It was first used in Bordeaux in 2003 but has since been used in Reims, Anger, Orlean, Tours and Dubai. There have been operating problems and many in the industry are sceptical of its long-term potential. However, for use within historic or visually-sensitive city centres it offers a useful option. 180816 8211 06:44 I also spent many a fascinating half hour or so watching the shoes entering or leaving the trams near the Common end of Streatham High Road on the old A 23. The Selnec Number 60 I8217m going back to 1971. I got a place at De la Salle teacher training college in Middleton. Because said college only had campus accommodation for years 2, and 3, first years lived 8216out8217. I was in Glen Avenue, Blackley. I used to get the number 60 to visit girlfriend students at Sedgley Park. (Now a police training college) What was the exact route of this service I used to get on at the 8216tram office8217 on Rochdale Road in the 8216dip8217 just further towards Middleton from Glen Ave. 090716 8211 06:39 I have an undated SELNEC bus map which would have been published sometime just after the time of the formation of the PTE (November 1969 so perhaps published during 1970). In the list on the map it refers to service 60 as 8216Cannon Street-Blackley Circular via Cheetham Hill or Rochdale Road8217. There were clockwise and anti-clockwise circular services that both carried the same service number 60. Following the map the anti-clockwise service ran via the following route: Cannon Street, High Street, Shudehill, Rochdale Road, (Blackley tram office), Rochdale Road, Victoria Avenue, Middleton Road, Cheetham Hill Road, Corporation Street, Cannon Street. The clockwise service appears to leave from Cannon Street travelling via High Street, Shudehill, Withy Grove and Corporation Street. The route after that is clearer travelling via Cheetham Hill Road, Middleton Road, Victoria Avenue, Rochdale Road, (Blackley tram office), Rochdale Road, Shudehill, Withy Grove, Corporation Street then Cannon Street. The 8216tram office8217 Mike refers to stood in the 8216v8217 of the junction of Middleton Old Road and Rochdale Road. The building can be made out on Google Streetview. There is an older photo of the building at: pinterest Coach Companies Ending with 8216tonian8217 I wonder if you could help, we are wondering why Coach Companies often have the ending 8216tonian8217 e. g. AltonianBedfordian 010716 8211 16:55 Brutonian in Somerset spring to mind8230 It is to show allegiance to a place, generally the operational centre Brutonian, means native to Bruton, just as Glaswegian means native to Glasgow. 010716 8211 16:57 That wonderful thing called wikipedia tells me that this word ending is a demonym. It is a term for residents of or associated with a particular place. There are several types, and include quotChinesequot for the people of China, quotEnglishquot for the people of England, etc. For the ending in question the site notes quotPrestonianquot for Preston, Lancs, and quotTorontonianquot for Toronto. I guess all those coach companies have taken their place name and added this suffix to indicate their place of origin. This just goes to show that coaches must have a personality, as the suffix is meant to apply to people 020716 8211 13:34 Barfordian Coaches once of Great Barford near Bedford but now with a Bedford address. barfordiancoaches. co. uk 160160 Truronian of Truro (according to Wikipedia: Truronian was formed in September 1987 by former Western National managers8230.in April 2008, Truroninan was purchased by FirstGroup8230.in March 2012, the trading name was sold to Newell8217s Travel). 020716 8211 18:52 Many of these only added the IAN as in the Alton-ian and Bedford-ian examples. This idea was also used by Duple in developing their Hendon-ian body. 020716 8211 18:54 Windsorian is another. You can8217t do it with all names, though: I find the following imaginary ones unconvincing: Biggleswadian. Newburian. Illston-on-the-Hillian. Yr Wyddgrugian8212the English version of which would sound distinctly mildewy. As quot-ianquot is from Latin, I suppose we shouldn8217t expect our earthy Saxon, Danish and Celtic place names to fit into the pattern. Salopia Saloon Coaches has no final quot-nquot and sounds quite happy, but only because the Romans couldn8217t pronounce words beginning with quotShr-quot. 040716 8211 15:56 Just remembered my Oxfordshire days. and Heyfordian 8211 still going I believe. 060716 8211 07:52 I think we can all understand why there are no Isle of Wight coach companies called Caulkhead-ian 060716 8211 09:48 There8217s one not far from Bedford 8211 Barfordian Coaches. I believe it was originally based in Great Barford, but is now in Bedford itself. 060716 8211 11:23 Kingston upon Hull City Transport8217s coaching section was named quotKingstonianquot. Bedford SB OKJ 210 Can anyone help me please with history of this coach a Bedford SB new to Watsons of Strood in 1-1952. with a Duple body C24F. a description describes it as a luxury coach. This coach was later in the fleet of Redby Coaches of Roker, Sunderland date unknown I would be grateful of any help in tracing any change of ownership after Watsons and again after Redby. Whilst with Redby it was regularly used by Sunderland football club, their ground being in Roker close by to Redby8217s garage. 200616 8211 09:30 There8217s a mention of OKJ 210 on the 8216Buses On Screen8217 website. Private Coach (1953, British Pathe News) OKJ210, Bedford SBDuple of Watson, Strood 8211 a luxury coach with hostess service, radio message service and toilet providing free travel to London, seen leaving Aylesbury. It8217s the idea of car dealer Raymond Way to bring potential customers to his car showroom in Kilburn (Thanks Martin Ingle) 060217 8211 07:20 After Watsons. 1952, this coach is known to have gone to Scott Greys of Darlington before going on to Redby Coaches of Sunderland. I ask can anyone be able to help with change of ownership dates also after Redby8217s would be of interest to me. The Scott Greys information just been forth coming to me 5217. Buses in Manchester Circa 1940 8211 1945 This seems to be the best place to aid my search. My grandfather, Daniel Francis Kelly, was a bus driver in early 19408217s in Manchester. All I know for certain is that he moved back to Ireland in 1945, so that would be when his service ended. I8217m trying to find out what kind of bus he would have driven. Presumably it would have been Manchester Corporation I8217ve had a quick search and some names have come up like a Streamliner and Daimler Utility. Ultimately I8217d like to find out what route he also drove, however I feel this will be highly unlikely 8211 still worth a shot. 170616 8211 14:44 During the late thirties, Manchester Corporation had a standard design of bus body which was built on Crossley, Leyland and Daimler chassis, the bodies being built by Metro-Cammell, Crossley, Leyland and English Electric, so your grandfather might have driven any of these, they were probably the most common buses in Manchester during the war. The Daimler Utilities were only a small part of the fleet and were not built until late in the war. It is also possible that he could have worked for North Western, which had a depot in Manchester. 180616 8211 06:16 When you say he drove buses in Manchester, he could of course have driven for any of the surrounding Municiple Undertakings, all of which worked in to Manchester. These being Ashton under Lyne, SHMD, Stockport, Oldham, Salford, Bolton, and Rochdale. North Western Road Car Company has already been mentioned, and there was also Lancashire United Transport, and of course Maynes, the only independent operator to run Stage services in Manchester. I know it slightly blurrs the boundaries for you, but Manchester Corporation Transport Department ran more route miles outside the City limits than it did in it. Good luck in your quest. 180616 8211 06:17 quotStreamlinerquot was the name of the standard design that Don described, and this link shows what it looked like: flic. krpqxRGjh 210616 8211 05:58 The Greater Manchester Transport Society archive at the Museum of Transport, Boyle St in Manchester, is the custodian of payroll records for MCTD, including those from the wartime years. It might be a laborious search (and, realistically, you8217d have to do it for yourself), but the records are there and we8217re a friendly bunch. A phone call to George Turnbull, the Museum8217s archivist, on 0161-205-2122 (Wednesdays are the best days to catch him)would give you some idea of what might be discovered. 090916 8211 16:25 Well first of all thank you all for your replies 8211 some very useful info there. I8217ve been able to get some more info too. My grandmother, who met my grandfather on the bus route lived in Salford, Broughton area. In that area, the current bus routes and operators in the area are as follows. Stage Coach Manchester 151, Hollinwood, Morrisons 8211 Mandley Park 294, Langley 8211 Trafford Park First Greater Manchester 42, East Didsbury Parrs Wood 8211 North Manchester General Hospital 52, Salford Shopping Centre 8211 Failsworth 59, Rush croft 8211 Manchester Piccadilly 135, Bury - Manchester Piccadilly I have no doubt that the routes are different as are the numbers. But hopefully this narrows down which operators were in that area circa 1943. I8217ll make my way down to to the museum and speak to George Turnbul and see if I can have a look through the archives. Thanks all for your help so far. 120916 8211 06:12 Living in Broughton, which was in the Salford City Transport area, the probability was that your Grandfather drove for that Corporation. The majority of the fleet at that time comprised Leyland Titan TD4 amp 5s and AEC Regents 8.8 litre (Manchester Museum of Transport has a splendid preserved example of one these). There were other marques still in use during that period including a few Dennis8217 acquired in 1932 and Crossley Mancunians dating from 1934 and 1938. Most of the bus fleet at the outbreak of war was less than 5 years old but by the end of the war it was in a deplorable state due to poor maintenance and management. One bus route in the area that does date back to that era is the 135, then the 35 Manchester to Bury route which was a joint service between Bury, Manchester and Salford Corporations. If your Grandfather lived in Broughton it is also conceivable that he worked at Manchester8217s Queens Rd garage in Cheetham Hill as it is not far from Broughton and, if so, experienced driving the Leyland and Crossley Streamliners. Buses from that garage served a wide area of North Manchester up to Rochdale, Oldham and beyond plus several cross city services. 120916 8211 06:13 James, your grandfather would not have been confined to a single route. He would have worked from a depot, and most likely would have worked in rotation on all the routes that that depot operated. If one of those routes went through Broughton then I think the operator would be Salford, as Manchester didn8217t operate in that area until later, unless anyone else knows different. 120916 8211 16:52 Orla has given a very comprehensive and accurate answer. All I would add is that, in the 1930s, up until around 1938, both Manchester and Salford gave job priority to people living within their own boundaries wherever possible due to high levels of unemployment. Had your grandfather been employed before 1938, living in Broughton would have almost certainly precluded his employment by MCTD as the occupation of driver was not hard to fill from within the Manchester boundary. By 1940, with large numbers of eligible men having been recruited to the forces or priority industries, the restrictions were ignored if not lifted. Albion Victor CCB 300 Does anyone know if Albion Victor FT39N Duple C31F which was new to Cronshaw of Hendon 1950 still survives in preservation According to PSVC Preserved Buses it has been listed with Leary, Pilsley for a number of years but does not appear on the rally scene, nor on the DVLA web site. Previous to Leary it was listed with Simpson, Killamarsh circa 1999. Photo above shows it at Wembley in 1952 020616 8211 11:32 Below are two views of CCB 300 owned by Cadman of Thorne taken by me in their yard at Thorne. Date unknown. Also a photo of another vehicle there which may be of interest 571 BWT. 020616 8211 16:06 I8217ve been hoping someone might have remarked on why it is registered in Blackburn. 030616 8211 06:32 Cronshaw coaches were registered in Blackburn until 1959. At one time the company did apparently have an operation there, but it8217s my recollection that registration of the coaches in Blackburn continued even when the bulk, at least, of the operation was in London. This was a time when I didn8217t have the same interest in coaches as buses, and I8217m sure others will be able to elaborate on this story. 030616 8211 06:34 In 1928, Lewis Cronshaw ran an hourly Blackburn to Manchester service. He was established in Blackburn, then started a business in Hendon, but registered some coaches in Blackburn. At some stage it was merged into Valliant-Cronshaw, which later merged with Silverline. 040616 8211 06:44 Cronshaw had a second Albion CCB 301. CCB 301 An FT39 72869B Du 54035 C31F 1950 Cronshaw, NW4 060616 8211 06:37 I came across CCB 300 less than ten years ago under a tarpaulin at a preservation storage site in Derbyshire. It wasn8217t in a usable state, and didn8217t appear to have any work being done on it. I haven8217t heard anything about it since. 070616 8211 07:04 Peter, Pilsley the address of Leary the recorded owner is in Derbyshire so looks like its still owned by him. Amazing the people pay rent on storage year on year but never do any restoration. Hopefully it may find a new owner before it gets beyond restoration. 070616 8211 07:05 Interesting submission from John W, there. I8217d been aware of the listing of CCB 301 on BLOTW (but no sign of CCB 300) so I had assumed there was only the one vehicle, and BLOTW was in error. CCB 300 has now appeared on BLOTW, I8217m inclined to suppose after intervention by John. Could I ask, does the additional information come from a PSVC chassis list I notice that the vehicle is quoted in the caption as an FT39N, while BLOTW gives FT39. There was also an FT39AN model, I seem to recall. Could someone possibly remind me of the differences between the various models I recollect that differing lengthswheelbases was in it somewhere. Also, I see that CCB 300 is consistently given as C31F, rather than FC31F. This is something else which I8217m sure has been discussed before, IIRC some models of Albion were not regarded as full-front since they had never appeared as half-cab, despite being front vertical-engined. Here again, could someone remind 070616 8211 18:57 Dear David, When I read your request for information on which Albion chassis were built with a full-front structure I was at home and had a copy of Albion of Scotstoun by Adams and Milligan to hand. So here is, as far as I can see, the information you are requesting. You are correct that some Albion PSV models with front vertical engines and axles mounted at the front of the chassis were designed to take full-fronted bodywork, having the same cab floor and dash structure as related lorries: these were the Viking CX41 and HD6173, and the Victor FT and VT. The Viking was a full-sized bus for unpaved road markets although one was given a 37-seat Thurgood body and registered (NJH150) in the UK. BLOTW has it as FC37F despite the above. The Victor FT was a smaller model, part of the lightweight FT (under 2-tons unladen, 6 ton Payload) series of goods chassis current from 1939-59 the last of the previous PH series Victors had been built in 1939 and the first of the new series was the petrol powered FT3AB announced in 1947. The engine was a six-cylinder unit initially EN277 of 4.25 litres but from 1949 EN282 of 4.6 litres. Like the Viking it was lorry-derived with a straight frame. By the end of 1948 the FT39 version was in production, this had the four-cylinder 4.88 litre EN286 engine as did the FT37 Chieftain lorry, as the earlier type had been the passenger version of the FT3, major differences being confined to longer springs and dampers all round. A five-speed gearbox with crawler first was fitted to the FT39 as opposed to the four-speed on petrol versions. The A suffix from 1952 indicated a number of driveline and suspension revisions, a change to spring mountings causing a slight lengthening of offered wheelbases. Overall lengths remained constant being coded N for25ft nominal bodied length, L for 27ft 6in and LX for 30ft. The K revisions producing the FT39KAN, KAL and KALX entailed a larger EN287 5.5 litre engine and heavier duty front springs. In all over two thousand FT series Victors were built until 1958 over forty are listed as preservedsurviving in 1999. The VT series was derived from the CH Chieftain and built from 1959 until 1966. Further to what John Wakefield was saying, I am in close proximity to bus preservationists on a weekly basis and have been for a number of years. Often work gets done only when time money and inclination come together for instance: a friend got his Derwent II bodied YRT ready for its MoT over a period of years on that basis. Sadly the first time he was to take it out for public display at the Riverside Museum just under a year ago he suffered a low speed traffic accident at Glasgow Green this, though, has been the spur to get previous in-service damage to the lower body frame repaired and over the last year Scott, a GVVT member who is a time served coachbuilder and who has a real flair for composite bodies has renewed much of the frame below the waist-rail including re-instating a boot that fell out over twenty five years ago. Conversely there are other buses and coaches at Bridgeton that have either never been restored, such as a 1971 ex Glasgow J-Type Atlantean some are currently half restored and have been for a decade (these include an ex-Guernsey Victor lacking seats, glazing and panels) or were once fully restored and then left out in the open to moulder away. The owner of one such here, a pre-war Alexander Bluebird Tiger, will do nothing to re-restore it but will only sell for a price that will recompense him for the work he once did. Thus, it exists critical (previous neglect in the open) but stable (under cover and dry for a few years) and unlikely to be a candidate for rehabilitation while the current owner lives. PS! Does anyone reading this have a set of BMAC rear lights of 1960s1970s pattern suitable for a Plaxton Derwent II 090616 8211 06:43 To Stephen8217s comments about inactive preservation I would add that it isn8217t always safe to assume that rent is being paid year after year. If an enthusiast is running a storage site and the rent on a vehicle stops coming in, what is he going to do I remember the late Norman Myers, when he was running a site in Bolton, selling the same vehicle three times without ever buying it. On each occasion the owner agreed to give him the vehicle in lieu of unpaid rent Leeds City Transport Fleet List Does anyone know of a Leeds City Transport fleet list 19308217s until it8217s demise. 220516 8211 07:20 The PSV Circle published a fleet history of Leeds City Transport circa 1969. I don8217t know of any update of this history. Another source of information on Leeds buses is the series of books published by the Leeds Transport Historical Society under the title Leeds Transport. There are five volumes in the series and have comprehensive details of Leeds buses. The books are quite expensive averaging about 35 each. 220516 8211 16:34 There now appears to be an attempt to clear stocks of the 8216Leeds Transport8217 series of books. Last year I invested in four of them from MDS Books priced at 25 each, and I noticed last week on a visit to Otley (the Yorkshire one) that a discount bookshop there had them in their window at the same price. This is still of course far too much to spend just for the fleet list aspect, but they are superb books and well worth it at this reduced price. Sheffield to Doncaster I was wondering if anyone might know what number bus in 1973 travelled from Sheffield to Doncaster (via the Steelworks district) and what bus station in Doncaster it arrived at. Also, how long would the journey have taken and was it a double decker bus. Many thanks in advance for your help with this matter 110516 8211 06:45 Service 77 ran from Pond Street Sheffield through the east end to Rotherham and then via Conisborough to Waterdale Doncaster or later the southern (or only) bus station. It was operated by the three municipalities and took I think an hour. For many years it was single deck operated but changes of route or bridges in the 50s made double deck working possible. In the mid sixties Doncaster used newish front entrance PD3s or CVG6s and Rotherham older CVG6s. Corrections and improvements please 120516 8211 06:12 Further rootings (or routings): Single deck working of route 77 (the only Doncaster CT route number ever displayed) seems to have ceased in 1958, when Doncaster 22 23 amp 24 ,1953 AEC Regal III 9.6 half cabs were stood down. 22 now belongs to DOLRS and is preserved at Sandtoft. The Sheffield third was not of course the municipality but SJOC, who at one time used PD230s. and there was once a Southern Bus Station, probably as daunting as the Northern - now no more. Halifax quotCamel-Roofquot AEC Regent This is an enlargement from a Valentine8217s postcard in my collection taken in Commercial Street, Halifax in the mid-1930s. It shows a pair of Halifax Corporation AEC Regents with what I believe were Short Brothers open-staircase bodies with their distinctive quotcamel-roofquot. Mention has been made of this style of bodywork on other Old Bus Photo threads before, but I think this is the first illustration of them on this site. Sadly, on enlargement, exact identification of them has not been possible. The quotcamel-roofquot bodies were designed to allow head-room for upper-deck passengers along the central gangway. I understand this was a failed attempt to compete with Leyland8217s early quotlowbridgequot bodies. With the hump, they look to be normal height so the question is 8211 what apparent advantage or benefit did they offer over normal highbridge bodies 090516 8211 08:28 Thx, Paul, for posting this photo 8211 views of these buses are certainly rare. You pose the question that many of us enthusiasts have asked over the years. To me, they would only be useful in a Beverley Bar situation, rarer even than photos of these buses If the Leyland system was patented, how was it that it became so common 8211 did other bodybuilders pay a royalty to Leyland for building their product 090516 8211 16:56 Presumably camel back buses were more Beverley Bar than Leyland Lquot. Many old rail bridges were arched and the bus would just have to clear a more narrow central span. Like Beverley, it would have required a greater degree of precision The arched rail overbridge at Woodlesford near Leeds has an optionalquot single central lane marked on the highway and Im sure there are others - perhaps in Elland, which may have something to do with these. Maybe our Halifax panel will know how this worked in practice The Leyland patent was more desperation than comfort, trapped (not literally) between bridges of the railway boom and length restrictions for single decks. Access was difficult, capacity restricted by spreading passengers and the limited height did not help to ventilate the cig smoke. Then there was the lower saloon stoop. 090516 8211 16:57 Surely they would lessen the chances of a bridge strike at any arched bridge. Perhaps Halifax had a preponderance of those and thought this design could be a cost cutter. 090516 8211 16:58 Halifax8217s 8216Camel Roofed8217 Regents came from three different bodybuilders 8211 the first ones from Short Bros. the second ones from Hoyal and the later ones from English Electric. There were recognisable differences between all these and both the vehicles in the photo are from the later batches with English Electric bodies. The one in the foreground appears to be in the CP 94xx series (116-120, CP 9442-9446). The one in the background looks to have just two or three numbers in its registration number, which would make it one of 2-6 (JX 321-325), 103-105 (JX 46-48) or 133-136 (JX 331-334). 090516 8211 16:58 Chris, I believe I have read somewhere that Leyland8217s patent for the lowbridge side-gangway layout only required a payment when used by others for a limited number of years 8211 perhaps five During that time, such alternatives as these hump back roofs, and double side gangway upstairs were used to avoid paying a royalty to Leyland. Once the patent royalty fee period had expired, the other designs seem to have been rapidly dropped in favour of Leyland8217s design. I cannot recall where I read this, but someone else may be able to pinpoint the source or veracity of this. 090516 8211 16:58 The information following is from the late Alan Townsin8217s book on AEC Regents published by TPC and correspondence in the PDF copies of Leyland Torque. Leyland did have a patent on the Titan style body it was purchased from General Motors, who had several us patents on double deck body design but had only extended the one by the Fifth Avenue coach Company to other territories. It expired prior to world war 2. Notably the Yellow Coach Rackham US patent is different to the patent Leyland bought. The purpose of the Camel-Roof body (an AEC registered design) was cosmetic, to make a highbridge bus look as low as a titan from the viewpoint of a pedestrian. This mattered in areas were double deck buses were novel and in areas where Titans were seen as safe and the previous generation of double decks such as the Leyland G7 and the AEC PS not. 100516 8211 06:51 Thanks, Gentlemen, for your thoughts and logical suggestions of the design being an early quotBeverley Barquot idea to negotiate arched railway bridges. (Was it this design which led EYMS to take the next step) Many thanks also to John S, for your local knowledge. Your reply opens up more questions and conundrums. Why did these come from three body builders and over what period Did Short Bros and Hoyal (who) decline to make any more because of an AEC royalty demand Their fleet numbers and registrations also raise an eyebrow in their lack of sequence. Did they take the fleet numbers of withdrawn buses Being from a city where fleet numbers and registrations followed a fairly logical and sequential pattern (Leeds) it seems strange that fleet numbers 2-6 should have higher registration numbers than 103-105 etc. Similarly, for the Halifax prefix CP registrations to be well up into the 9000s in the early 1930s seems remarkable. Perversely, for the prefix JX to have only two or three numbers during this same period seems equally incredible. John, please can you give us more fleet details of all three batches of these remarkable buses 110516 8211 06:43 Thx, Michael H for some background info about the Leyland patent. As for the Hoyal Body Corporation, they were a shortlived bus body builder (single and double deck) working out from Weybridge between 1922 and 1931, when they went into voluntary liquidation. 110516 8211 12:55 It is possible that in those early days these Regents may have been ordered from AEC as complete vehicles and then the bodywork subcontracted out by them to various bodybuilders in the south-east. Leyland offered a complete standard vehicle at the time and AEC8217s Chief Designer John Rackham was keen to have a similar arrangement for the Regent. Hoyal had its origins as Chalmer amp Hoyer Ltd. registered at 41 Charing Cross Road, London. They were the first company to take out the patent rights to build the Weymann flexible framed car body design, and became prolific builders of car bodywork 8211 particularly for Morris. They also were early builders of motor boats at premises near Poole in Dorset. By 1927 Chalmer had left and H. W. Allingham was sales manager. Taking the 8216Hoy8217 of Hoyer and the 8216al8217 of Allingham the company became The Hoyal Body Corporation, and around this time they began diversifying into bus and charabanc bodywork, but this only appears to have lasted for about four years or so. I have tried to put together a list of the camel-roofed Regents but it doesn8217t really help to explain things to be honest 8211 not without having the entire fleet history before you. There seems to have been some initial indecision at first as to whether to have separate number series for the two fleets or not. Buses were allocated fleet numbers upon being ordered, but some were changed upon or just after delivery to fill gaps, and they weren8217t necessarily delivered or put into service in the order they were ordered in. Also in between the Regents there were Regal single deckers too. As for the numbering of the Halifax fleet 8211 well, where do I start. The numbering system started straight forwardly enough with the three original Daimler CC types nos. 1-3 of 191213 and continued onwards up to ex-demonstrator Regent 57 in 1930, with just six Karriers 1-6 reusing vacated numbers. 53-56 were the first 8216Camel Roofed8217 Regents. Then in 1929 the Joint Committee came into being, though its effect numberwise took a year or so to take effect. A considerable number of former Corporation vehicles were transferred to the JOC fleet, but retained their original numbers. The fleet of George Garrard of West Vale was taken over by the JOC and their vehicles became 60-65. Four more 8216Camel Roofed8217 Regents for the JOC became 66-69. Thirteen vehicles from the Hebble fleet became 70-82, and an unknown number of LMS Railway vehicles were briefly operated, the only known ones being 8384 but is is believed that there were probably many more taking numbers maybe to around 100 or so. The next new Corporation buses 8216jumped over8217 the JOC numbers and started at 107, continuing to 124, whilst lots of new JOC vehicles flooded in to replace the older and second hand ones taking their vacated numbers and continuing up to 105, then 8216jumped over8217 the Corporation numbers and continued from 125. The next Corporation deliveries then reverted back to a new series starting from 2 (the original Karrier no. 1 still being in service). From here Corporation buses ran in a series from 2 up to 88 by 1940, and JOC buses continued from 125 and reached 208 by 1939. After the war JOC buses continued the prewar series from 209, eventually reaching 293 by 1954. A new series for postwar Corporation buses began at 301 and reached 360 by 1951. By 1954 there were just 25 prewar Regents remaining (all from the Corporation fleet) so the entire Corporation fleet was put into registration number order and renumbered from 11 to 86, though a solitary batch of manual gearbox PD28217s were kept separate as 100-108. A further batch of new CVG6 followed on as 87-98. From 1958, new GM Richard Le Fevre commenced new series for both fleets, Corporation buses starting from 1, and JOC buses from 201. They were numbered in neat blocks with gaps between e. g. 1-9, 11-18, 21-28 etc, and equivalent buses for the two fleets had matching numbers e. g. Regent V8217s 11-18 (Corp.) and 211-218 (JOC). Later many of the earlier JOC buses were renumbered into the 3008217s to make way for future deliveries. Then in 1963 Geoffrey Hilditch took over, and8230..well8230. The system went totally astray after that 120516 8211 06:14 My word, John 8211 many thanks for a fantastic reply. I8217m very grateful that you took the trouble to respond to my rather presumptuous request for further information. What a complex and fascinating history Halifax TramwaysCorporation had. Until now, I8217d only given attention to their wonderful tramway where, in the early days, no far-flung outpost was seemingly off limits, regardless of their potential traffic earnings. Sorry, John 8211 another question: Could these quotcamel-roofquot Regents also have been the first to wear the quotGlasgowquot colour scheme 120516 8211 15:57 Yes, the first 8216Camel Roofed8217 Regents were also the first to carry the green, orange and cream livery. The first buses of 191213 had varnished wood bodies with the bonnets and other bits painted in the current tram style dark blue. With the arrival of manager Ben Hall, as the trams changed to a dark red and cream (not neccessarily the correct terms) so the buses became cream and the same dark red, with the later Karrier WL68217s and the one-off experimental Karrier Chaser, Dennis EV and Leyland Tiger painted in allover dark red. The prototype AEC Regent(chassis no. 661001) with Short 8216Camel Roofed8217 body was put into service by them as a demonstrator on 13th February 1929, registered MT 2114 and in the current AEC demonstration livery of off white with blue relief. It paid an early visit to Halifax in that year where it impressed sufficiently to result in an immediate order for some similar buses. By November 1929 it was repainted into Glasgow8217s green, orange and cream livery for demonstration in that city, resulting also in an order from them. It has often been said that the inspiration for Halifax adopting a similar livery was due to its demonstration here in the Glasgow livery, but a reliable authority on the subject insists that he has photographic evidence that it was still in the original off-white and blue at the time. It is still fairly certain that at some point after its visit to Halifax, and after repaint into Glasgow livery, some local councillors saw it 8211 probably at a show, or maybe it even stopped off locally on its way to Scotland 8211 and they made their minds up then. The first three Halifax Regents (53-55, CP 8009-8011) were delivered in November 1929, The official AEC photograph of Halifax Regent 53 was apparently taken almost immediately after the one of MT 2114 after repaint into Glasgow livery so the whole process of seeing the Glasgow livery, deciding to adopt it, having Short8217s paint them and getting them them into service seems to have happened impossibly quickly. Alan Townsin in his TPC book 8216Best of British Buses 8211 AEC Regents 1929-19428217 confirms that designer John Rackham wanted to offer a standard body to complement his Regent chassis, and was responsible for the 8216Camel Roofed8217 design and, having no bodybuilding department of their own, he had Short Bros. build a number of bodies on the first few chassis. The demonstrator was the first one, and Halifax took nine, others going to the National Omnibus Co. Wallasey Corporation and two went to Cornish Buses Ltd.(later taken over by Western National). The initial Halifax livery was very similar to the Glasgow one in layout, with orange lower panels, cream from a band below the lower deck windows to the cantrail (and including the bonnet top), green upper panels, a cream band below the upper deck windows, green around the upper deck windows, and a silver roof. After a short time this was modified so that the lower deck window pillars and surrounds were also green (as was the bonnet top), with just cream bands above and below, giving a 8216three-banded8217 layout. From the mid-19308217s this was changed again such that the upper deck window pillars and surrounds became cream, and roofs became green instead of silver. With all the above liveries there was extensive use of black lining separating the different colours. For the record, further minor changes were made after the war with a reduction in some of the black lining. GM Roderick McKenzie introduced a simplified non-banded livery with the arrival of the CVG68217s in 1954, and then applied this to many of the existing vehicles, but there was a quick reversion to the previous style inbetween his leaving and his successor arriving 8211 thanks to some underhand dealings by the body shop. Once again, under Geoffrey Hilditch8217s tenure the livery variations were many and varied. 130516 8211 06:07 Many thanks again, John, for your comprehensive reply which gives me more insight into the origin of the Glasgow livery in Halifax. I never realised that there were so many variations of it. Fascinating. 130516 8211 06:08 A further point which comes to mind after reading Alan Townsins book is that the camel roof design was simply a device to avoid the Leyland lowbridge patent whilst making the bus look like the popular TD1, even though it was essentially a highbridge bus. Leyland introduced the Highbridge body for the TD1 about 1930, so did the patent then elapse, as the standard lowbridgehighbridge concept seems to have been adopted by most body builders by this time Not really anything to do with quotBeverley Barquot type ideas 150516 8211 06:56 So the 8216camel roof8217 double-decker was an AEC design to avoid making 8216lowbridge8217 patent payments. I8217ll bet that gave Leyland the hump82308230 (Well someone had to say it) 150516 8211 08:39 Johns comprehensive historical knowledge of the Halifax transport scene never ceases to amaze me. OBP is privileged indeed to include him as a valued contributor. On the subject of the camel roof concept, this, as John Whitaker states, was devised entirely for cosmetic reasons, the appearance from ground level being similar to that of the low built patented Leyland lowbridge (single offside upper saloon gangway) design. The Leyland lowbridge concept originated in the United States, where, between 1922 and 1926, G. J. Rackham had worked for The Yellow Coach Manufacturing Company, later to become the bus manufacturing arm of General Motors. On being appointed as Chief Engineer to Leyland in the summer of 1926, Rackham brought back with him the idea of using the US lowbridge arrangement in his new double deck design, and negotiated the patent rights accordingly. With its lowered height, the new Titan looked supremely stable against much of the tall, ungainly double deck competition, and this undoubtedly contributed to the initial sales success. On moving to AEC to create the even more modern Regent, Rackham was prevented by patent rights from emulating the Leyland lowbridge concept, though, as I understand it, the lowbridge double gangway upper deck design was still available to use, albeit at a penalty in passenger accommodation. Instead, Rackham fell back on another American idea. In the USA at that time, some double deck bodies were constructed with the lowered headroom over the upper saloon seats, but the central gangway was open to the elements. Rackham adapted this to meet the vagaries of the British climate by humping the roof to give adequate gangway headroom, and the camel roof was born. As public acceptance quickly grew of the stability of the highbridge double decker 8211 normal height Leyland Titans and Regents began appearing from 1929 8211 the camel roof thankfully faded away into history. It would seem, also, that the Leyland lowbridge patent lapsed after about five years. As John has described, in its brief existence between 1921 and 1931, Chalmer and Hoyer, who became, from 1928, The Hoyal Body Corporation of Weybridge, was preoccupied mainly with car bodywork manufacture on the patented lightweight Weymann principle. This employed a (very) lightweight wooden frame with metal inserts at all the joints to preclude timber to timber contact. The whole thing was held together with straining wires and then covered with a layer of muslin stretched over chicken wire, which in turn received a cosmetic layer of leathercloth as a final finish. Internally, seats and fittings were bolted directly to the chassis. The end result was extraordinarily light and reasonably rigid 8211 even some upmarket cars like Rolls Royces had Weymann patent bodies 8211 but one shudders to think how such a flimsy construction would stand up to accident impact. The designer was Charles Terres Weymann, who, despite the German sounding name, was born in Haiti of an American father and Haitian mother, and thus held dual American French nationality. He was a pioneer aviator from 1909 and flew during WW1, and his lightweight construction ideas were clearly based upon early aircraft manufacturing principles. He set up a factory in Paris and another in Indianapolis, and licensed his car bodywork design to a number of British manufacturers 8211 Gurney Nutting, Harrington, Mann Egerton, Mulliner, Plaxton and Rover are names that will be familiar to OBP aficionados. Obviously gratified with the success of this venture, Weymann himself then set up a British manufacturing facility, initially in Putney in 1923 before moving to the old Bleriot aeroplane works in Addlestone in 1925, only a short distance from the Hoyal business in Weybridge. By the end of the 1920s the Weymann car body method was losing popularity in favour of metal panel construction and the fortunes of several of the licencees faded likewise, with several moving into other product areas such as bus and coach bodywork. Hoyal became bus builders, but the depression took its toll on many in the motor industries, and the firm folded in 1931, not helped, one imagines, by the more successful presence of the Weymann business just down the road. Indeed, the Weymann factories in Paris and Indianapolis themselves closed in 1930 and 1931 respectively, but the Addlestone business prospered right through its MCW phase from 1932 until closure, after a lengthy strike, in 1966. The Hoyal bus bodies would seem to have been quite soundly constructed, and the firm was well regarded by the local Brooklands motor racing circuit for its speedy, last minute repairs and modifications to the racing cars. Here is a link to a picture of the last Hoyal bus body to enter the Halifax Corporation fleet. AEC Regent No.115, CP 9078, was placed in service on 24 July 1931, but three more entered the Joint Committee fleet after that date, the last, CP 9439, not entering service until 13 January 1932, well past the final creditors meeting of the Hoyal business which was held on 28 August 1931 to wind up the business voluntarily. One wonders where CP 9439 had spent the last four months of 1931. Perhaps it became embroiled in the scramble for assets by the creditors. nonsequitur. freeforums. org Moving on to the subject of the Halifax fleet numbering system under Geoffrey Hilditch, this was something that totally bemused me during my two years as a Traffic Clerk at Skircoat Road. As an example, the OBP entry for Halifax Corporation 8211 AEC Regal 8211 BCP 544 8211 258 tells of the strange, idiosyncratic approach. This bus was originally JOC number 269 before briefly passing to the Corporation fleet as number 99. It then went back again as JOC number 269, but was then renumbered 268, a number borne by an identical Regal that was withdrawn in 1964. Finally, this bus became number 258, a number previously carried by Albion Nimbus RJX 258, which was the first of these unloved machines to be sold off (to Warrington) in 1965. 268 was then given to a new dual purpose Leopard, and 258 was later awarded to the rebodied ex Bourne and Balmer Reliance NRK 350. Were fleet numbers subject to a rationing scheme in Halifax The whole merry dance seemed utterly pointless to my simple southern senses. Other buses moved into and out of the 300 series of numbers under a system that would have surely baffled the boffins at Bletchley Park. To add to Johns detailed descriptions of the various Halifax liveries, perhaps one should add the two experimental efforts. The first was applied to a Regent III in February 1955, which had unpainted aluminium panels below the lower saloon waistline instead of orange paint. Curiously, in his book Halifax Passenger Transport 1887 to 1963 GGH describes this episode in a caption to a picture of bus number 381281, BCP 675, yet gives the identity of the vehicle as number 282, BCP 676 perhaps John might be able to clarify the matter. The other experiment involved Daimler CVG6 number 285, DCP 844 which had the areas of orange and green reversed, green at the bottom, orange at the top. This was entirely sensible, for, besides being subject to severe fading, orange is a peculiarly difficult colour to match. Green is far less troublesome. During my own time with HPTD it was quite common to witness buses with the lower repaired panels displaying an unsightly chequerboard appearance in varying hues of orange. Legend tells us that the reversed livery provoked a storm of outraged protest, though I cannot understand why this should have been the case, unless it emanated from an attitude in certain quarters of inbuilt intransigence towards intelligent progress that I myself noted during my (thankfully brief) sojourn at Skircoat Road. That livery would have resembled the old Chatham amp District scheme which had green at the bottom and brown above. A Halifax version would have surely adopted black mudguards and bolder lining out to beneficial effect. Ah well, its all down to personal taste, I suppose. s622.photobucket 160516 8211 06:46 Thanks for your kind comment, Roger. There were one or two errors in Hilditch8217s book, and the caption to the photo of 381 is an example. I8217m sure I have a photo of the RegentPark Royal to which he refers which was in standard livery save for the lower panels being in an unpainted stucco form. I can8217t lay my hands on it for some reason but I8217m fairly sure it was 282 (BCP 676). The one depicted in the photo in the book is of 381 (formerly 281, BCP 675), which was repainted in the 19508217s19608217s Glasgow style 8216half and half8217 style with all orange below the upper deck floor level, all green above, with a single cream band separating the two. He had obviously got his wires crossed a liitle there. I don8217t remember seeing 282 with the unpainted panels, but I do remember 381 and it looked absolutely dreadful. It is surprising how just rearranging the same colours into different proportions and layouts can actually make the shades themselves look different. I also remember the CVG6MCCW 285 (DCP 844) in its 8216reversed8217 livery. It wasn8217t an exact reversal of the standard orange and green livery. The green lower area extended unrelieved right up to the top of the lower deck windows, there was the a cream band above the windows, orange upper deck panels to just below the upper deck windows, cream just below and around those windows, then a green roof. I was only very young at the time but I do remember everyone who saw it saying how awful it looked. I do have two photographs showing it in this short-lived scheme and the green colour looks a very different shade altogether 8211 much paler 8211 but being taken from an old 19508217s slide one can8217t always trust the colour rendition. I must say that I8217m glad they didn8217t adopt that style, practical though it may have been, but then as a died-in-the-wool Halifax man I am a bit of a traditionalist I suppose. Unfortunately I am prevented from reproducing either photo here, more8217s the pity. 160516 8211 06:46 Thank you very much, Roger, for adding yet more fascinating information about these buses. I never thought that my old postcard would have generated so much detail and interest. Your photo of the last Hoyel bus begs the question about its livery. I know black and white photos can be deceptive, but the lower panels seem to be very dark compared to my postcard. Assuming both photos show them with the Glasgow livery, were the shades changed at some stage or was it simply a trick of the light 160516 8211 07:49 Roger Coxs reference to the storm in Halifax at the possibility of reversed bus livery should not be a surprise. It is sometimes said that the reason Halifax preserves so much of its handsome Victorian (and earlier) town centre is that, unlike its neighbours, its good folk could never agree in the 60s on a plan for redevelopment. 160516 8211 08:47 As with all subjects, reference to the published literature usually supplies an answer. Between us all, on this site, we probably have access to just about every bus book ever published, so most answers can be quotdug outquot With regard to the published literature, I have always regarded Alan Townsin as THE quotguruquot. although there are, of course, other worthy contributors Looking at ATs AEC books again, it seems that the first production run of Regents had some buses with Hall Lewis lowbridge bodies. Did these avoid the Leyland patent by having 2 gangways as the contemporary Salford Lances, and were the Devon General Titans and Oxford Regents like this too The open staircase camel roof body seems to have been first supplied to Southern National. Wallasey had a single bus, and there was, of course ST1139. Who else got them as well as Halifax The camel roof was also later available as an enclosed staircase body. Nottingham received 2 batches in 1930, one by Hall Lewis, where the quothumpquot was even more pronounced. All very interesting quotstuffquot 160516 8211 10:00 Thanks for that clarification about those experimental liveries, John, and you have every reason to feel proud of being a dyed in the wool Halifax man. As for my comment about 8216resistance to intelligent progress in certain quarters8217, you know exactly what I mean. It was certainly not a reflection of the entirely justifiable and commendable generic independence of the Halifax approach to events. As you describe it, the reversed version of the scheme does seem dreadful. My juvenile appreciation (I was seven years old when I last beheld it) of the Chatham amp District colours were entirely favourable, and a straightforward swap of the Hilditch era layout of green and orange would have surely been OK. Turning to Paul8217s comment about the relative shades of the Hoyal body in the picture, this suggests that the photograph was taken on orthochromatic rather than panchromatic film, which rendered reddish colours rather darkly, and blue green ones a bit light. Finally, in response to Joe, yes, Halifax can commend itself upon the retention of its splendid Victorian heritage, unlike my home town of Croydon with its 1960s onwards architectural excrescences, but Halifax did then disfigure the skyline with Burdock Way, so the locals needn8217t get too smug. 160516 8211 17:50 ST1139 had a Short Bros. highbridge body, John. However, there were five ST8217s with double gangwayed Short bodied which were delivered in May 1930 (ST 136 and 140 were two from memory). Maybe the twin gangways were, indeed, different enough to get around the patent problem. Photos elsewhere on OBP are here: tinyurlgv3k58g 170516 8211 06:55 Thanks for correcting my senior moment re. ST1139 Chris. The Wallasey photo looks like a camel type but can anyone confirm this as it is difficult to tell from my photo. Short Bros were building both types at the same time I have found 5 more Camel types Nottingham had 5 rear entrance enclosed 1929 Regents with English Electric bodies, of pure EE design. Perhaps we should collectively compile a full list of the camels Does anyone have any info about Howards Coaches operating in Surrey somewhere near Cobham Ridges, maybe 1930-1950 I have a photo at a Railway Station with a level crossing with a single deck Bedford coach with that name on the destination indicator. 060516 8211 08:31 BLOTW shows a new Bedford OB chassis 147359 with Duple C29F 48139 registered to Howards, West Byfleet 11951. 070516 8211 06:49 My Little Red Book for 19589 shows Howard8217s Garage, 12 Station Approach, West Byfleet, Surrey as an operator. They had 3 BedfordDuple vehicles and both Stage and Excursions and Tours licences. The livery was described as tan and buff. They are not in my 1968 Passenger Transport Yearbook, but as neither book was a complete list of operators it doesn8217t necessarily mean a lot, but it points to them ceasing trading some time between those dates. Looking on the net there8217s an interesting picture with more details at flic. krp881RU3 This vehicle still exists, see flic. krp8aRvGW 070516 8211 06:50 A picture of a 1931 Bedford WLB operated by Howard may be found here:- flickrphotosmegaanorak 110516 8211 12:56 I imagine that the 8216HOSPITAL destination, that the bus was going to, was the Rowley Bristow Hospital in nearby Pyrford, now long gone 5261 Engine Swap at Sutton Coldfield I was an 18 year old fitter at Midland Red Sutton Coldfield garage when it was decided to swap the Gardner engine in D11 5261 for a 10.5 D9 unit. Although it took a bit of juggling it worked, it seemed somewhat harsher than the Gardner but if I remember all those years a go it seemed popular with the drivers. I transferred to Swadlincote depot shortly after wards to get married so I never found out what happened to it. If anyone has any information I8217d be very interested to here what happened to it. 260416 8211 14:53 There is some information here: midlandredvehicles It says a Gardner engine was refitted in 1968 and the bus was transferred to West Midlands PTE in 1973. Old Coventry Corporation Buses As a child in the early 19608217s I remember travelling on the old Coventry Corporation buses, open at the back and half a cab at the front with a backward facing full width seat on the lower deck at the front. Who made these buses 260416 8211 14:54 Hello Mr Edmunds, You might like to look at this website which shows a good selection of Coventry buses operating in the 1960s. Hope this helps to rekindle good childhood memories. sct61.org. uk Tracing origin of Registration SOX 1 I am trying to trace the origin of Registration SOX 1. I am lead to believe that it was first used on a buscoach in Birmingham, allocated in around 1955. Any information would be greatly appreciated. I have owned this number since about 1975. 240416 8211 07:30 I8217ve checked buslistsontheweb. co. uk and they do not list that registration, by no means conclusive but nevertheless it probably means it was an uncommon type of coach with a small operator or even a works or welfare bus. 250416 8211 06:44 Long shot8212but could it have belonged to a hosiery manufacturer in, say, Leicester 280416 8211 16:56 The SOX (series) was issued Birmingham CBC January 1956. A few cases are known of individual numbers (low numbers) being issued prior to the main series ie 8216HOV8217 for BCT buses 8211 some two months before. For some strange reason my old addled brain seems to recall seeing SOX on a Commer Avenger SB (WorthingtonAllenways perhaps) so don8217t give up on the PSV connection. 290416 8211 06:10 Nigel, according to Bus Lists On The Web, in 1956 Jackson8217s of Castle Bromwich took delivery of SOX 700, a Bedford SBGDuple C41F coach, and Worthington8217s of Birmingham received SOX 858859, which were Commer Avenger IIIDuple C37F coaches, so your memory has stood you in good stead The Commer Avenger IIIs (with Plaxton C41F bodies) delivered to Allenways are listed as being SOV 880-883. Although this information does not really progress Roland8217s query as to the history of registration SOX 1, I had wondered if it could originally have been on a Mayoral car. However, the only ones that come close in Noel Woodall8217s trusty book 8216Car Numbers8217 are SOB 1, issued to the Lord Bishop of Birmingham, and SOL 1 which graced Solihull8217s Mayoral car. Is it possible that SOX 1 may have been issued to a motorcycle when new, as at one time quite a few licencing authorities reserved two-digit registrations for 2-wheeled machines 290416 8211 14:27 Brendan, I thought that the reason for reserving two-digit numbers for two-wheeled vehicles started after the introduction of year suffix registrations. There was no room on motor-cycles or scooters for 7-digit registrations, so purely a space-saving decision to limit plates to 6 digits. My Lambretta was registered SKA 59G, the rear plate being square with SKA over 59G. 300416 8211 06:25 With respect, I don8217t think that is quite right, Dave. In the 1960s I had a 1935 Scott Flying Squirrel with the registration WK 9322 (high mileage memory now a bit hazy 8211 it may have been WV) and I also had a Pannonia 250 motorbike registered BLN 877B. 300416 8211 08:44 In the 60s I bought a car from one of those nice little dealers: I wanted a fairly distinctive registration (free) so he rang the Council and said Can I have a motorcycle number - love (this was Sheffield)- they sold them as well. I got one - two numbers and a suffix. 020516 8211 13:57 WV was Wiltshire, Roger. and your bike might well have been WV. I had a 1937 Ariel Red Hunter motorbike, by which time the registration had become 33, in my case AWV 260. 030516 8211 08:02 WK 9322 was issued early 1929, WV 9322 late 1935. So Roger8217s motorbike was probably WV. 040516 8211 06:19 Many thanks to Chris and David for clarifying the number of my old Scott motor bike. WV is clearly correct. I just wish that I still had that machine now 8211 a 1935 Flying Squirrel with a 1930 short stroke 600 cc engine. I wonder if it still exists. The square rear number plate employed quite small letters and figures to get 9322 on it. Motor cycles used to have a curved vertical registration plate along the top of the front mudguard, but this nowadays seems to have been abandoned, presumably on safety grounds. 050516 8211 06:49 There seemed to be an interim period, Roger. My last motorbike, a 1957 BSA B34, had a front mudguard with flat side edges, deep enough to display the registration mark either side. In 1962, I bought my first car, a Renault Dauphine 8211 356 DLA 050516 8211 06:50 Yes the vertical mounted front registration plate ceased being fitted on safety grounds. Apparently they were very good at scything into the flesh if you went over the handle bars or that of pedestrians unlucky enough to get in the way. Trent X8 Nottingham to Gt Yarmouth Service After reading the fascinating and enlightening article by Neville Mercer on Huntingdon Street Bus Station and additionally now having been proffered photographic evidence of LUT vehicles departing from Nottingham to Great Yarmouth, Please can anyone offer any further information or perhaps a timetable of this Trent Gt Yarmouth service. Thanks in advance 010416 8211 09:17 Are we sure this was X8 as my ABC for 1953 says X7 It shows a summer Saturday service of up to 6 services per day with 1 on Monday-Thursday 2 on Friday and Sunday with one journey on a Saturday extended tofrom Derby. Schedule on the core section was 6 hours 25 minutes outbound and 6 hours 40 minutes inbound 010416 8211 09:23 Responding to the QampA from Mike Norris today, Im attaching two scans of the Summer 1971 timetable for the service. The timetable was subject to seasonal adjustments but this particular version gives a fair idea of the underlying service pattern. 030416 8211 11:07 My thanks to Roger for the correction (Not X8, but X7) and to Mike for taking the trouble to download the service information. Thanks Gents. Having read Nevilles latest posting about the City Coach Company Leyland TEP1 Gnu which was only one of three before being followed by the TEC2 chassis. This got me to thinking what exactly did the TEP and TEC stand for, in fact what did most of the Leyland codes stand for. Is anyone interested in solving these codes If we manage it I will compile a table and add them to the 8216Abreviations8217 page. I will start it off with the two easiest:- So if anyone wants to have a go at some of the others ie Tiger Cub PSUC code, Lion LT or PLSC code or maybe the Cheetah LZ code. 310316 8211 15:33 I have a bell ringing that the S in code TS1 originally stood for Side (driver alongSide engine, i. e. forward control), differentiating the higher capacity TS1 Tiger from the bonneted TB1 Tigress8230 When a double-deck version came along, the TD1 was created. That said, I think that the follow-on PS1 derivative did indeed indicate Passenger 8216Single-decker8217. This one will run for some time, I think 310316 8211 15:56 I8217m afraid that the quotPquot in PD and PS stands for quotPost-warquot rather than anything to do with an engine. The PD1 and PS1 had the E181 engine while the PD2, PD3, and PS2 had the more up-to-date O.600. PSU1234 as in Royal Tigers, early Worldmasters, 36ft Leopards and 32ft Leopards respectively stood for Post-war Single-deck, Underfloor engined and PSUC the same plus the word Cub to differentiate between a Royal Tiger and a Tiger Cub. In the PSUR designation of Panthers the quotRquot indicated rear-engined, with PSURC continuing the logic by being a Panther Cub. However, many other post-war designs followed a completely different logic. The HR4044 were the quotHome Rangequot versions of the single-deck Olympic (the number indicating maximum seating capacity) while the light-weight version of the Olympic, the Olympian, used LW1 and LW2 for the bus and semi-coach versions. When the Worldmaster became available on the home market (for those who found the Tiger Cub too gutless) somebody decided to allocate quotRTquot designations 8211 presumably to indicate Royal Tiger as there was also a small number of models called Royal Tiger Cubs with RTC codes. I could go on, but I8217m supposed to be typing the text of my next book so I8217ll let somebody else have a go 310316 8211 15:58 Thanks for that Neville I have amended my copy above and made a note of the rest for the 8216Abreviations8217 page. 010416 8211 07:07 There has been quite a bit of correspondence in the Leyland Torque magazine about the designation of the 19508217s integral, Tiger Cub-based Olympian single decker. Readers researching official Leyland and MCW company documents seem to have concluded that the LW designation was purely an MCW Group one, and that Leyland themselves do not seem to have allocated a code. I would agree that when the Tiger TS was introduced the 8216S8217 does seem to have indicated 8216Side Type8217 i. e. forward control, this having been applied to other earlier models throughout the 19208217s. However, with the equivalent Titan TD clearly indicating 8216T-series, Double Deck8217, it gradually became believed that 8216S8217 indicated 8216Single Deck8217. As for the Gnu TEC2. This was based on a Steer twin-steer, six-wheel goods chassis, modified to have the engine and cab on a front overhang. The Steer was coded TEC (there were TEC1, 2, 3 amp 4). In the same T-range of goods chassis there was the Hippo conventional 3-axle chassis, coded TSW (T-series, Six Wheeled), and the Octopus 4-axle chassis coded TEW (T-series, Eight Wheeled). However, faced with coming up with a code for the Steer they seem to have regarded the model as basically an Octopus with a rear axle removed, so modified TEW to TEC 8211 so maybe, and rather irrationally, it stood for T-series, Eight, Chinese. As often happens (look at London Transport type codes) someones starts off with a logical system, then as time passes and new models and complexities arise, the system all goes a bit astray and illogical. 030416 8211 07:27 An obvious continuation of Neville8217s theme is PDR1 and 2 for Atlantean and its prototype predecessors 8211 post-war double-deck rear-engined. One small correction: the Panther Cub was PSRC. Presumably PSURC was too long for somebody or something. 030416 8211 08:58 The P in PLSC (the Lion) stood for quotpneumaticquot at a time when tyres were changing from solid rubber to air inflated. 030416 8211 09:20 I have received of a scan from a book that states that the P in PD, PS, PSU etc stood for Passenger. It also states that the Panther Cub was PSURC 8211 P assenger, S ingle deck, U nderfloor R ear engine, C ub, 040416 8211 06:43 Originally Leyland8217s early models were allocated a single letter code, going alphabetically from A and I think reaching O. In the 19208217s they started a new system whereby a seemingly random single letter code was used to indicate the weight range of the model. 30cwtZ 2-tonA 3-tonC 4-tonG 5-tonP 6-tonQ. This was followed by a number to indicate variations e. g. C7, G2. When forward control variants were introduced Leyland referred to these as Side Types and inserted an 8216S8217 in front of the code e. g. SG9. Some models were of higher build, so had an 8216H8217 inserted e. g. GH2, SGH6. Until then the same basic chassis had been used for both goods and passenger use, but to compete with other makers a new range of chassis was introduced specifically designed for passenger use. These had lower chassis profiles and were allocated the prefix 8216L8217. They also introduced names for all new models at the same time. These were the small Leveret LA1, LA2 amp LA3 (L-series, A2 ton, with three variations) Lioness LC1 (L-series, C3 tons, first version) Lion LSC1 (L-series, Side Type, C3 tons, 1st variant) Leopard LSG2 (L-series, Side Type, G4 tons, 2nd variant), which was very rare Leviathan LSP1 double decker (L-series, Side Type, P5 tons, 1st variant). As Roger mentions, when pneumatic tyres were fitted these models acquired a 8216P8217 in front, giving PLA, PLC, PLSC, PLSP etc. When these models were replaced by the Rackham-designed T-series, the six cylinder single decker was the Tiger TS (T-series, Side Type) which ran from versions TS1 to TS8, then TS11. A few TS78217s and TS88217s had a second rear axle added to allow them to be 30 feet long, and if this was non-driven (i. e. trailing) a 8216T8217 was added to the end, or if double drive a final 8216D8217 was added 8211 e. g. TS7D, TS8T. The double decker was the Titan TD (Titan Double) which ran from TD1 to TD7. A six-wheel double decker specifically designed as such was the Titanic TT (T-series, Three axle) running from TT1 to TT6. Goods models are outside the scope of this site, but the Badger TA4 (T-series, A2 tons, 4th version) was occasionally bodied as a bus, and West Mon UDC certainly used the Bull TQ1 (T-series, Q6 tons, 1st version) and Beaver TSC8 (T-series, Side Type, C3 tons, 8th version) as buses for the Bargoed Hill service. (The C3 tons had though by that time become inappropriate for the Beaver, as it was by then about a 67 tonner ). A lower powered 4-cylinder single decker was the Lion LT (presumably Light, T-series 8211 though they were not exactly light) which ran from LT1 to LT9, with LT5A and LT5B variants, though the LT9 was effectively a TS8 chassis with the Lion engine. A bonnetted version was the Lioness LTB1 (Light. T-series, Bonnetted). A bonnetted LTB3 with Tiger units was confusingly named Tigress. From 1932 a small, bonnetted lighter chassis was introduced to compete with Bedford etc. Built at the former Trojan works at Kingston, Surrey it was the Cub KP (Kingston, Passenger 8211 the goods model was KG) going from KP1 to KP4. The introduction of an oil (i. e. diesel) engine caused an 8216O8217 to be added, giving KPO2, KPO3 etc. Forward control models had an 8216S8217 (Side Type) prefix, giving SKP2, SKPO3 etc. Then a new Light Six engine (which could be petrol or diesel) came along, an 8216A8217 indicating petrol, or 8216Z8217 indicating diesel e. g. KPZ4, SKPZ5. The largest SKPZ5 version was named Lion Cub. The Lion 8211 especially when bodied as a coach 8211 tended to be rather underpowered, so eventually a new full sized lighter weight single decker model was introduced using a new chassis, with some Lion parts and the Light Six engine from the Cub. This was the Cheetah LZ (Lightweight. Z-type engine), which ran from LZ1 to LZ5 as a diesel, or with an 8216A8217 suffix if petrol e. g. LZ2A. (An equivalent goods chassis was the Lynx DZ). The Gnu has already been discussed, and the solitary experimental Panda without the set back axle, and with an underfloor engine does not appear to have been allocated a code. A special for London Transport8217s Green Line fleet, having half cab, but underfloor engine and preselector gearbox and coded TF by LT, was coded FEC by Leyland, though what this stood for is anyone8217s guess. Also for LT, a half cabbed, but rear engined Cub, coded CR by them, was coded REC (Rear Engined Cub) by Leyland. Trolleybus chassis of the 19308217s were the 2-axle TB (Trolley Bus), 3-axle TTB (Three-axle, Trolley Bus), and a single experimental low floored, front entrance 3-axle example was the TTL (Three-axle, Trolleybus, Low). 040416 8211 06:44 According to the scan from the book FEC 8211 Flat Engine Coach 040416 8211 06:44 Peter, the 8216P8217 in PD and PS definitely stood for 8216Post War8217, not 8216Passenger8217. It is believed that Leyland considered that the TD TS series numbering had become somewhat cumbersome (the next numbers would have been TD8 and TS12), and the PD1PS1 models were decidedly different from their predecessors. The pre-war Cub was lettered KP or KPO (oil) or SKPZ (side driving position, not sure about the Z) and the K in these stood for 8216Kingston8217, though the factory was actually the former Sopwith Aircraft premises at nearby Ham. 040416 8211 06:44 Yet again from the scan Z a new 8216Light Six8217 engine. 040416 8211 11:03 The sizeable Leyland Kingston factory was situated near Richmond Road, Ham, and was built by the Ministry of Munitions in 1917. It was taken over by The Sopwith Aviation Company in April 1918 for the production of aircraft for the war effort. When the war ended just seven months later, aircraft orders collapsed, and Sopwith, like many other businesses of the time, was hit by the Excess Profits Tax of 80. Despite diversifying into motorcycles and civil aircraft, Sopwith went into liquidation in 1920, and the Ham premises were sold to Leyland for 227,000. In 1922 Leyland contracted with Leslie Hayward Hounsfield to produce the Trojan lightweight car, and, up to 1928 when the agreement ended, some 11,000 cars and 6,700 vans emerged from the Ham factory. In 1948, the reincarnated Sopwith company, Hawker Aircraft, bought back the Ham factory from Leyland for the sum of 585,000. 050416 8211 06:41 And after leaving the Ham factory, Trojan established themselves in a new factory on the Purley Way, Croydon, building cars, vans and, from 1962 Heinkel bubblecars under the Trojan name. Production ceased later in the 1960s and the Croydon factory was sold in 1970. All of which is way off topic from Leyland codes, but that8217s the joy of this far reaching site 050416 8211 06:42 The website 8216Ian8217s Bus Stop8217 conjectures that the FEC code, used for LPTB8217s TF, stood for quotFloor Engine Compartmentquot. 060416 8211 06:01 I had understood the FEC to be a Leyland designed chassis for London Transport to be 8216comparable8217 to the AEC Q, and hence a forward entrance. I believe all of them had coach bodies, hence a Forward Entrance Coach. The REC was also developed for London Transport, and is usually referred to as a Rear Engined Cub. The two 8216LT specials8217 had similar looking codes for chassis developed at around the same time 8211 the FEC is clearly not a Cub 8211 so maybe the C did not stand for that (especially as the 8216conventional8217 Cub did not have a C in its code) 8211 and was certainly not the same meaning as C in TEC (from a similar time period). As FEC and REC do not fit the 8216standard8217 pattern that John has detailed above, I just wonder if they might refer to Front Engined and Rear Engined 8216specials8217 for LT 8211 and as not all were coaches, might the C refer to chassis 8211 or even Chiswick. No 8216evidence8217 for the suggestion, just looking at what is, otherwise, a fairly logical system. 060416 8211 06:01 Two other Leyland trolleybus codes were TB4 (Hull nos 1-26) and TB7 (Hull nos 47-66). the original tender document for nos 1-26 from Leyland quoted TD4 but this was subsequently changed to TB4. Newcastle Fleet Numbers Does anyone know what the fleet numbers were that was allocated to the prewar bus bodies that were given new chassis in 1945 or 1946 for Newcastle Corporation Transport. 280316 8211 17:29 Newcastle fitted pre-war bodies to five Daimler new CWA6 chassis in 1945-7, giving them panel numbers 1-5, registered JVK 421-5. Oddly the batch came into service out of order over that three-year period. NovOctDec 1945: 1 and 2, with MCCW bodies from 153 and 155 (1932 AEC Regent I, reg. VK 76913) and 5, with Park Royal body from 142 (1931 Dr CH6, reg. VK 4086). Mar 1946: 4, Park Royal body from 144 (1931 Daimler CH6, reg. VK 4088) Mar 1947: 3, Park Royal body from 137 (1931 Daimler CH6, reg. VK 4081) All five were then taken out of service by Oct 1949, the old bodies scrapped and new ones fitted by Mann Egerton during Oct-Dec 1950. Some body shuffling also took place in 1945-7 either to keep some of the pre-war donor chassis in service for a little while longer or to sell them off as complete vehicles. Did you need that detail as well The information comes from PSV Circle Fleet History PA16 or official records where the latter differ. Some spin-off questions, hopefully to be answered by somebody out there 1. Why the protracted period for fitting the second-hand bodies 2. Why were Mann Egerton chosen to supply the new bodies in 1950 3. Why did other new vehicles delivered to Newcastle in 1945 take numbers from 13 onwards (13-8, JVK 613-8, more Dr CWA6s but with Massey bodies 19-26 followed on in 1946), leaving a numbering gap of 6-12, only filled partially in 1949 by low-bridge Ld PD2s nos. 6-11, LVK 6-11 4. Has anybody got a photo of no. 1 with its second-hand body Here are pics of no 3 with its original and new bodies. The latter comes from Ian Findlays collection. Bus Lists on the Web has some vehicles bought new by Lees, Worksop between 1947 8211 1958 one bought new by Lees Motorways, Worksop in 1959 others bought new by Lees, Nottingham between 1961 8211 1965. Can anyone please tell me if these three are incarnations of the same operator Was Lees, at some stage, swallowed up by East Midland MS 270316 8211 16:40 I am now informed that Lees passed not to EMMS but to Barton. As is often the case with our shared interest this partial answer leads to more questions. Ian Allan British Bus Fleets 5-East Midlands book of 1965 tells that Barton absorbed 43 smaller operators over the years. My new questions are - a) does anyone have a list of those take-overs and b) what vehicles passed from Lees to Barton I am confident that the OBP 8216Eggheads8217 will be able to supply answers. 280316 8211 11:16 Barton history Part 2 (1960-85) by PSVC gives: F. L. Lees of Worksop, first vehicle c 1943. To Lees Motorways (Worksop) Ltd by 1956 but probably much earlier. To Lees Motorways Ltd by 1960, moved to Beeston c1964. Some 95 vehicles are recorded over 30 years of operation. Barton acquired the business in February 1974 and following on from grant-style coaches 1205-1445 were five AEC Reliances taken over from the Lees fleet: 1446 (MYJ 764) new to Dickson (Dundee) via WA 1447 (589 EYU) new to Global (London) 1448 (KWB 520D) new to Littlewood (Sheffield) 1449 (MRO 138D) new to Frame8217s (London) 1450 (KDU 239D) new to Supreme (Coventry) The first two were withdrawn in 1974, the rest in 1975. All were Plaxton bodied except 1447 which was Duple Northern. 280316 8211 13:35 Many thanks to Dave Farrier for that response. I have so far been unable to obtain a copy of the PSVC work referred to. What a shame that these works of reference are allowed to fade away when sold out. Does the book itemise all the take-overs Princess Mary Coaches I am attempting to find details and pictures of the fleet of coaches operated from the 50s to the early 80s Wiltshire8217s Coaches, trading as 8216Princess Mary Coaches8217 from Soundwell, Bristol. Despite my best efforts, I can find little detail on this fleet from my childhood. There are a couple of pictures out there of their well known and preserved VAM and their Duple Bella Vista VAS which survived well. However, the rest of the fleet over its history is a blank. No apparent fleet list and certainly little photographic reference. 240216 8211 16:53 8216Bus Lists On The Web8217 lists a total of twenty vehicles delivered new to Wiltshire of Staple Hill, S G Wiltshire of Staple Hill, D W Wiltshire of Staple Hill, or Princess Mary of Bristol. The eight listed as new to Princess Mary are concentrated in the period 1954-65, so that may indicate a temporary change to limited company status. Soundwell is not mentioned, but I appreciate that it may be a more precise description to Staple Hill of the operator8217s location. Of the eight given as new to Princess Mary, the first six were registered in Bristol (all others up to LVLO days were registered in Gloucestershire, but Soundwell does appear to be just outside the Bristol City boundary). As always, dates of entry into service should be treated with caution 8211 one particular vehicle, given as new in 350, carried a registration which was ostensibly not issued until at least 752. P. S. Are you the Dave Wallington who is active in bus modelling 250216 8211 09:11 For such a well-respected operator, Princess Mary coaches do seem to have been a little camera-shy. HAD 915D and EDD 685C are well-represented on the web of course (in preservation and in service with subsequent operators) 8211 the latter is an SB rather than a VAS. A few other ex-Princess Mary coaches can also be found in use with later owners, but here8217s a shot of Regal III LAD 511 early in its Princess Mary days. na3t. orgroadphoto 250216 8211 16:33 AD and AD were Gloucester registration marks. 250216 8211 16:35 A great big thank you David Call. It is a great step forward for me. Like you, I find it surprising for such a well respected operator in (well almost in) a major city to have such camera shy vehicles. Yes, I am 8216that8217 David Wallington and have decided that I will endeavour to model as much as possible of this fleet. Takk igjen. Northern General Guy Arab 1133 I am a complete outsider, but entered the site and found it wonderful. My comments and queries probably should find their way to Ronnie Hoye. I was born and lived in Beamish. During the 1950s our local (NGT) services were the 4,5 and 15 which ran past our door every 15 minutes (can you believe it) using fleet 1791-1824, AEC RelianceBurlinghams, while nearby was the No 7 Grange Villa to Newcastle, Worswick St using 1953 Tiger Cubs. But my question is this. During the early 60s my friend and I used to intentionally 8216miss8217 our scholars bus so that on Fridays we could catch a duplicate service on which a Guy Arab NGT 1133 would be used. We were thrilled riding on this bus: the narrow stair, the seating, the poles, the way the clippie rapped on the glass with a coin, but above all the sound from the engine. What was this Now half a century later I want to know. What made my pal and I yearn to board this ancient Guy Arab. What made that sweet, almost 8216sewing-machine8217 like sound as the bus gathered speed. Will I, can I ever hear that sound again (Bus was registration GUP or something) Hope someone can help 250216 8211 10:31 Sorry David, my area was north of the Tyne, Tynemouth amp Wakefileds and Tyneside. Percy Main only had a hand full 8216all AEC8217 and Tyneside didn8217t have any, so single deckers were few and far between, so this will have to be a best guess on my part. However, your description seem to fit the B38F Brush bodied GUY Arab III powered by a Gardner 5LW. Northern had quite a number, I cant be specific, but as far as I8217m aware, the GUP batch were from 1947, and the fleet numbers were at the cross over from 1000 to 1100. I know there were some with LPT registrations, and they were all in the 14008217s. During the summer months the odd one would be on loan to Percy Main, but apart from Newcastle Worswick Street, and Marlborough Crescent, they seldom ventured north of the Tyne. 250216 8211 16:28 250216 8211 16:29 Sorry, Dave, assuming all other details are correct you must have remembered the fleet number wrongly. Northern8217s GUP-registered Guy Arab saloons were 1068-1116 (GUP 68-116). 1117-52 were AEC Regals (not GUP-registered). 260216 8211 09:05 Thanks gents for the comments. I have since purchased 8216Northern General8217 Glory Days and find that GUP 76, fleet 1076 shown on page 58 comes closest to what I remember, though the livery was all red by the early 60s. But can anyone of you mechanically minded chaps tell me why that 5L power unit sounded so distinct, and whining or was it just the steep hills of County Durham The electrics perhaps 260216 8211 14:28 David: whereas inline 6-cylinder engines can be made vibration-free using crankshaft counterweights, the only way to eliminate vibration from an inline 5 is to use balance shafts, as in the modern Scania engine. The Gardner 5LW has no such shafts and therefore, superbly designed and built though it was, it does vibrate. This vibration, together with the fact that a 5-pot gives only five power strokes per two revolutions of the crankshaft rather than six, gives rise to that grunting, lumpy, no-nonsense sound so characteristic of the 5LW. With the gearbox remotely mounted halfway down the chassis, the clutch is not enclosed by a bell housing and so is exposed to the air, which causes the whistling sound. Guy Arab III gearboxes are more subdued than those of the later Arab IV models, so if 11338217s whined really loudly I wonder whether it could have had its gb replaced by one from an Arab IV On the Old Bus Sounds page of this excellent site (drop down from More Pages on the green bar above) are some very musical Arab IV clips. (The Birmingham example is different, having an epicyclic gearbox.) A longish YouTube clip of a preserved Exeter Arab IV show off the traditional gearbox to best advantage. 260216 8211 14:29 David, Gardner engines have a longer stroke than an AEC or Leyland, and are slow revving, usually flat out at around 17 to 1800 RPM, my car ticks over at 1,000, added to which they were usually a slow change giving them a very distinctive sound. Leylands can best be described as plodders, whereas an AEC has a whine when wound up, so although the basic principle is the same, they are all different. 260216 8211 16:55 I think that the most distinctive postwar engines were to be found in the Leyland PDPS8217s, which used to 8216hunt8217 at tickover, running through all the cylinders quickly, then pausing. This is so obvious with the West Riding PS212A in Old Bus Sounds. I imagine that the flywheel kept the engine revs constant which did not affect manoeuvring at tickovernear tickover revs. I can8217t recall any other contemporary engines doing this. 030316 8211 06:03 And here8217s one of the later batch mentioned by Ronnie Hoye. I went up to Harper of Heath Hayes in about 1967 with pal Stuart Wyss, who took the photos, to try out this ex NG-Guy Arab III, with a view (ostensibly) to getting it as an extra vehicle for student use at a college in Reading, but to be honest my real motive was to see and hear this unusual machine close up. Harpers were very trusting and said quotTake her for a runquot without even coming along to make sure we brought the bus back. I knew beforehand that with only a 4-speed gearbox and 5LW engine sparkling performance was not to be expected, but what came as a shock was the very cramped cab, which is how they squeezed in 38 seats It was all a bit battered and tired, so I didn8217t pursue it. Pity Nottingham8217s re-bodied Fleetlines As many of you will known Nottingham City Transport had four of their 1963 batch of Daimler Fleetlines re-bodied by NCME to the Nottingham Standard design in 19756. The four buses in question were 757, 823 (757, 823 RTO). I believe that 82 may have been involved in a bridge collision within a couple of weeks of entering service following re-bodying. Can anybody shed any light on this 240216 8211 05:45 Andy 8211 according to the Circle fleet history on NCT, the accident happened in October 1980, 82 had been rebodied in December 1975.It was repaired by using the roof and upper deck windows of 127 (MTO 127F). From memory, the low bridge involved was on Meadow Lane (probably the one which meant route 8 was always single deck operated). 250216 8211 05:42 Bob, thanks for the information. The Meadow Lane bridge claimed a few casualties in its time. Wasn8217t AEC Renown 390 withdrawn following a collision with this bridge. If so it was somewhat ironic that a bus based on a low height chassis was de-roofed because it was fitted with a full height body In 1913 Sheffield bought their fist buses. They were Daimlers, but really were badge engineered AECs. They bought some Daimlers in the late 40s. These had NCB bodywork. As they also had Regent IIIs at the same period, were they real or badge engineered 210216 8211 09:40 Daimler did produce Gardner engined diesel buses before the second world war, but during the war started to produce a wartime bus - the CW, with AEC or 5 or 6 cylinder Gardner engines - CWA or CWG: I dont think these had any connection with AEC apart from the engine. Daimler produced its own diesel engine towards the end of the war and a few found their way into CWs, the great example being the Northampton preserved CWD which even has a sound clip here with that beautiful, refined sound. These found their way to many municipalities not used to Daimlers - Im not sure if Sheffield had any previously: much later it had many Fleetlines, but never, like its municipal neighbours, CVGs After the war, Daimler produced the CV (not vehicle - victory) of which many were built: Daimler or Gardner engines, 5 or 6, were also available, but not, I think, AEC. When the lovely, smelly, hot Daimler diesel ceased, the CV designation continued until the end of half-cabs, with Gardner engines. I think the AEC connection came from cross-hiring engineers or, like Bristol, sourcing wartime engines Who knows better 210216 8211 09:58 There was no connection between AEC and Daimler after 1926 and until the BLMC link up. AEC used Daimler Pre-select transmission until they licensed it to make their own. The NCB Daimlers were CVD, the only post-war Daimlers until 951-953 in 1962 (followed by hoards in 1964 and 1965). The recent NCB book makes an interesting point which supports theories on distress purchase. AEC, in the post-war rush for new vehicles, were unable to supply the required number to STDSJOC. The bodies were already availablebuilt. ACV could supply ten Crossleys and Daimler ten CVD6. This with twenty Regent IIIs constituted the forty NCB bodies. 210216 8211 15:51 The later story of AECDaimler links is covered by the contributors above. Going back to the beginning, the first motor buses in the Sheffield fleet were of the Daimler CC type. The confusion with AEC, though incorrect, is understandable. Frank Searle, the Chief Engineer of the LGOC, was responsible for the remarkable 8216B8217 type which evolved from the pioneer 8216X8217 type. In 1910, Daimler, then mainly a car producing company, was taken over by BSA who sought to establish a firmer foothold in the commercial vehicle manufacturing business. A plan, funded by the BSA group, to set up a competitor to the LGOC in London using Daimler KPL petrol electric buses was drafted, and Searle was invited to become the chairman of the proposed Premier Motorbus Company. When the LGOC board got to hear of this it demanded to know Searle8217s intentions. Searle refused to commit himself and the LGOC association was immediately terminated in May 1911. In the meantime, Percy Frost-Smith, the Engineer of Thomas Tilling and a collaborator in the design of the Stevens petrol electric vehicle, declared that the KPL petrol electric violated his patents, whereupon BSA offered to buy the rights to the Stevens system. As is well known, Tilling took over the Maidstone company and the KPL manufacturing project and the planned Premier Motorbus Company were abandoned. Searle and BSA then brought out a new double deck motor bus called the CC, which, given the history of its designer, bore very close resemblances to the LGOC B type. It was not a badge engineered AEC. The CC was powered by the Daimler four cylinder sleeve valve engine of 5.7 litres developing up to 40 hp, though under the RAC rating it was known as the 821730 hp8217. The CC, said to have been the most refined bus of its time, achieved respectable sales until it was withdrawn from production in 1914. Despite the inauspicious start to the relationship, connections with AEC grew and Daimler became the agent for the sale of surplus B type buses outside the Metropolitan area. Also, AEC built vehicles at Walthamstow using Daimler engines and the Daimler name on the radiator. This agreement finally ceased at the end of 1917. However, in June 1926, the two companies again collaborated in setting up a joint venture called the Associated Daimler Company. The original idea was that chassis built by AEC in its new Southall factory would be fitted with Daimler sleeve valve engines. Sadly, the new Laurence Pomeroy designed 3.57 litre sleeve valve engine proved to be inadequate and unreliable, and AEC continued to offer its own, though rather outdated, 5.1 litre as an option. New ADC models appeared over the next couple of years, but the association between Daimler and AEC had always been a bit rocky, and, in June 1928, the two companies went their separate ways again. Thereafter all AEC and Daimler models were developed entirely independently, though the first preselector gearboxes and fluid flywheels fitted to London8217s buses were of Daimler manufacture, and subsequent production by AEC of these units was achieved under licence from Daimler. Between 1935 and 1939, 92 of Coventry8217s new Daimler buses were fitted with the AEC 7.7 litre engine (originally of indirect injection, but later of the direct injection type) thus making them COA6 models. Again, when wartime Daimler bus production resumed after the devastating Coventry air raids, once the initial Gardner powered batch of 100 had been completed, the AEC 7.7 became the standard engine in the CW chassis to relieve the pressure on Gardner supplies. Some of the above information has been drawn from the writings of Alan Townsin. 210216 8211 15:52 Thanks for that info. My Dad drove both types but I seem to remember the Daimler seemed to have a more refined, quieter engine. I8217m trying to find 1973 bus fare information for Hull, Anybody any idea where to start